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Old 12-13-2007, 02:24 PM  
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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New Poll reveals NeoCon views do not represent views of American Jews

New Poll reveals how unrepresentative NeoCon views are among American Jews

American Jewish Committee: 2007 Annual Survey of American Jewish Opinion
Well, this poll doesn't surprise me. It certainly matches my experiences with American Jews in discussing politics with them.

A new survey of American Jewish opinion, released by the American Jewish Committee, demonstrates several important propositions:

(1) Right-wing neocons (the Bill Kristol/Commentary/ AIPAC/Marty Peretz faction) [ I'd add The Weekly Standard ] who relentlessly claim to speak for Israel and for Jews generally hold views that are shared only by a small minority of American Jews;

(2) Viewpoints that are routinely demonized as reflective of animus towards Israel or even anti-Semitism are ones that are held by large majorities of American Jews

(3) Most American Jews oppose U.S. military action in the Middle East -- including both in Iraq and against Iran.

It is beyond dispute that American Jews overwhelmingly oppose core neoconservative foreign policy principles. Hence, in large numbers, they disapprove of the way the U.S. is handling its "campaign against terrorism" (59-31); overwhelmingly believe the U.S. should have stayed out of Iraq (67-27); believe that things are going "somewhat badly" or "very badly" in Iraq (76-23); and believe that the "surge" has either made things worse or has had no impact (68-30).

When asked whether they would support or oppose the United States taking military action against Iran a large majority -- 57-35% -- say they would oppose such action, even if it were being undertaken "to prevent [Iran] from developing nuclear weapons." While Jews hold views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict which are quite pessimistic about the prospects for Israel's ability to achieve a lasting peace with its "Arab neighbors," even there, a plurality (46-43) supports the establishment of a Palestinian state.

In the realm of U.S. domestic politics, it is even clearer that right-wing neoconservatives are a fringe segment of American Jewish public opinion. By a large margin, American Jews identify as some shade of liberal rather than conservative (43-25), and overwhelmingly identify themselves as Democrats rather than Republicans (58-15). And, most strikingly, by a 3-1 margin (61-21), they believe that Democrats, rather than Republicans, are "more likely to make the right decision about the war in Iraq," and by a similarly lopsided margin (53-30), believe that Democrats are "more likely to make the right decision when it comes to dealing with terrorism." They have overwhelmingly favorable views of the top 3 Democratic presidential candidates, and overwhelmingly negative views of 3 out of the top 4 GOP candidates (Giuliani being the sole exception, where opinion is split).

Contrary to the bottomless obssession which most neocon pundits and office-holders have with All Matters Israel, the principal political concerns of most American Jews have nothing to do with the Middle East. Thus, they identify "economy/jobs" (22) and "health care" (19) -- not Terrorism -- as "the most important problem facing the U.S. today." Still, most American Jews agree that "[c]aring about Israel is a very important part of [their] being a Jew" -- a common, innocuous and indisputable attribute that typically triggers noxious charges of anti-Semitism if pointed out by those who oppose the neoconservative agenda.

One of the defining traits of war-loving neoconservatives is that their unrelenting and exclusive fixation on the Middle East places them loudly at the center of any foreign policy debates. That tenacity -- combined with their reckless exploitation of "anti-Israel" and anti-Semitism accusations as instruments in their political rhetoric and their corresponding, deceitful equation of their own views with being "pro-Israel" -- often casts the appearance that they are some sort of spokespeople for the "pro-Israel" agenda or the Jewish viewpoint.

Manifestly, they are nothing of the sort. Even among American Jews, they comprise only a small minority, and their generally discredited militarism is widely rejected by most Jews as well. It is always worth underscoring these points, which are so frequently (and deliberately) obscured, and this comprehensive poll provides potent -- actually quite conclusive -- evidence for doing so.

Last edited by BucEyedPea; 12-13-2007 at 02:43 PM..
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Old 12-13-2007, 02:46 PM   #2
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and we have.... *crickets* from the neocons,
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Old 12-13-2007, 02:58 PM   #3
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Very true!

How many times have we heard or had it implied that those who disagree with these top NCs, because they're Jewish means we're anti-semitic or believe in the Protocols?
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Old 12-13-2007, 03:01 PM   #4
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neo-conservatives will destroy the GOP. thats all i'll say about that
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Old 12-13-2007, 03:21 PM   #5
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I'll bet fewer than 10% of those surveyed had the same definition of Neo-Con.
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Old 12-13-2007, 04:00 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Faithful
I'll bet fewer than 10% of those surveyed had the same definition of Neo-Con.
It wasn't necessary to even use the word "NeoCon" if you read the survey...it was a list of policy stands. Those just happen to be the policy stands of the NCs pushing these wars in the ME.


Quote:
Among the topics covered in the present survey are the campaign against terrorism and the war in Iraq, the Israel-Arab conflict, the attachment of American Jews to Israel, political and social issues in the United States, Jewish perceptions of anti-Semitism, and Jewish identity concerns. Some of the questions appearing in the survey are new; others are drawn from previous American Jewish Committee surveys, including the Annual Survey of American Jewish Opinion carried out in 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006.
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Old 12-13-2007, 04:02 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Chief Faithful
I'll bet fewer than 10% of those surveyed had the same definition of Neo-Con.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea
It wasn't necessary to even use the word "NeoCon" if you read the survey...it was a list of policy stands. Those just happen to be the policy stands of the NCs pushing these wars in the ME.
sounds like common sense to me.
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Old 12-13-2007, 05:12 PM   #8
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Look inside the numbers and you'll find why the poll results look the way they do...

How do you describe yourself:

Extremely Liberal 4%
Liberal 23%
somewhat liberal 16%
moderate 31%
somewhat conservative 9%
conservative 13%
extremely conservative 3%
not sure 3%


What political party do you affiliate with:

Republican 15 %
Democrate 58 %
Independant 26 %
not sure 2 %


So this poll is worth what exactly to you ?
With scewed partisian polling tactics like this,
you think this poll is relevent ? Have fun
with your circle jerk over this poll. Because
it doesn't mean more than .02 cents.

You call this a COMPREHENSIVE Poll ???
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Old 12-13-2007, 05:19 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Henry
Look inside the numbers and you'll find why the poll results look the way they do...

How do you describe yourself:

Extremely Liberal 4%
Liberal 23%
somewhat liberal 16%
moderate 31%
somewhat conservative 9%
conservative 13%
extremely conservative 3%
not sure 3%


What political party do you affiliate with:

Republican 15 %
Democrate 58 %
Independant 26 %
not sure 2 %


So this poll is worth what exactly to you ?
With scewed partisian polling tactics like this,
you think this poll is relevent ? Have fun
with your circle jerk over this poll. Because
it doesn't mean more than .02 cents.

You call this a COMPREHENSIVE Poll ???
It's a poll trying to analyze the stances of American Jews.

Is the breakdown skewed? Possibly. Do you have anything showing how many American Jews are members of the GOP/Dems/Independents? Without that data, you can't know if it's skewed or not.

Or are you silly enough to believe that American Jews are a clear-cut 50/50 split (or 33/33/33, allowing for independents), which seems to be what you are saying would make the poll more "fair".

Take a statistics class when you sign up for the logic course you so desperately need.

You've made a little progress. At least you're not trumpeting that people need to prove a negative this time.
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Last edited by Adept Havelock; 12-13-2007 at 05:24 PM..
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Old 12-13-2007, 05:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adept Havelock
It's a poll trying to analyze the stances of American Jews.

Is the breakdown skewed? Possibly. Do you have anything showing how many American Jews are members of the GOP/Dems/Independents? Without that data, you can't know if it's skewed or not.

Or are you silly enough to believe that American Jews are a clear-cut 50/50 split (or 33/33/33, allowing for independents), which seems to be what you are saying would make the poll more "fair".

Take a statistics class when you sign up for the logic course you so desperately need.

You've made a little progress. At least you're not trumpeting that people need to prove a negative this time.

Its common knowlege that most Jewish people are democrats.
So the results of the poll doesn't surprise me in the least.

But any comment from you is worth about .02 maybe .03 at the most
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Old 12-13-2007, 05:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Henry
Its common knowlege that most Jewish people are democrats.
So the results of the poll doesn't surprise me in the least.
Then why the little temper-tantrum about the "partisan" poll sample? If that's the actual breakdown (as you seem to be conceding) how can it be "partisan"? Unless you are making a Colbert-esque claim that reality has a partisan bias.

I suppose you felt like displaying your ignorance of simple logic and statistics. Hey, if it makes you happy...keep it up. It's funny as hell to me, and doesn't take nearly as long as watching an episode of Two and a Half Men. Thanks for the guffaw.
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Last edited by Adept Havelock; 12-13-2007 at 05:35 PM..
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Old 12-13-2007, 05:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Henry
Its common knowlege that most Jewish people are democrats.
So the results of the poll doesn't surprise me in the least.

But any comment from you is worth about .02 maybe .03 at the most
In that case, I will second Adept Havelock's clear and correct observation, in hope that we can reach a nickel or dime.
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Old 12-13-2007, 05:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenson71
In that case, I will second Adept Havelock's clear and correct observation, in hope that we can reach a nickel or dime.

Heh. Who knew a few lines of electronic text had cash value?
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Old 12-13-2007, 05:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adept Havelock
Then why the little temper-tantrum about the "partisan" poll sample? If that's the actual breakdown (as you seem to be conceding) how can it be "partisan"? Unless you are making a Colbert-esque claim that reality has a partisan bias.

I suppose you felt like displaying your ignorance of simple logic and statistics. Hey, if it makes you happy...keep it up. It's funny as hell to me.

Your very easily amused Einstein. But we all know why this poll
was put on the board. Its not unusaul at all for Jewish people
to not like what Republicans do. This poll has no real significance, unless your a Jew or someone that suffers from BDS, like yourself
.
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Old 12-13-2007, 05:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Henry
Your very easily amused Einstein. But we all know why this poll
was put on the board. Its not unusaul at all for Jewish people
to not like what Republicans do. This poll has no real significance, unless your a Jew or someone that suffers from BDS, like yourself
.
What would Jews care if Iran had a nuke, amirite?
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