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Old 12-14-2007, 10:21 AM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Liberty Dollar update - Government theives get aggressive

Friday, December 14, 2007

Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters:

Dark Moment for Liberty Dollar

I am shocked to inform you that we have learned that the FBI is moving aggressively to forfeit "their" seizure for auction immediately!

If that does not shock and alarm you, you are truly asleep! If there has ever been a time to support the Liberty Dollar with an Arrest Dollar and a donation… it is now!

Due to higher than anticipated demand for the Arrest Dollar, a printable order from as been created to simplify the process. It is available HERE.

This is so shocking that it makes one wonder what is going on. Unfortunately, the draconian raid/seizure/forfeiture by this government is SOP - Standard Operating Procedures! In fact, the more you learn, the worse it is. Once raided, the victim need not be arrested or even charged with a crime before his/her property can be forfeited and auctioned. This is so common that the police often refer to the seized property as "their" property. After all, like any common thief, they stole it… its "theirs"! Or so they would have you think!

Wait! It is not quite that simple with the Liberty Dollar. You see, I considered this dirty, stinking government trick when I designed and developed the Warehouse Receipt (WR) program. And although I didn't think they would really be this bad or simply ignorant… there is no doubt now. For that reason I am not the signatory on the Warehouse Receipt. Nor could I sign the WR because I am not the Warehouse Official. I don't even work for the warehouse. Remember the warehouse is totally independent and the official issuer of the warehouse receipt. NORFED, Liberty Services, myself, everybody who uses them are simply distributors of the receipts.

But the worst news is "economic persecution". Now we have to fight for your property… with nothing because they took everything in the raid. If we hadn't received some donations to get a new computer, we wouldn't even be able to send out this cry for help. This is very serious!

The Search/Seizure Warrants were for property at specific addresses. The property they seized at Sunshine backed the legal, signed Warehouse Receipts. That property was, and still is, owned by the bearers of the warehouse receipts and the digital Liberty Dollar holders. That is your property that they are trying to steal!

So in all fairness, I don't think Agent Andy and the FBI who raided the warehouse at Sunshine Mint know what they are doing. Yes, they can certainly be more damaging than a village idiot, but they may not know much more. It is obvious that they don't understand how a warehouse receipt program works. Except for my personal account at Sunshine, none of the confiscated material at Sunshine Mint was my property. It was YOURS!

Now! Are you going to let the US government steal your property?!
Click HERE to sign up for the Class Action Lawsuit.

You did nothing illegal! You heard about the new "inflation proof" currency and decided to check it out on line at www.LibertyDollar.org. You did your own "due diligence". You read quotes by the government that the Liberty Dollar was legal and that it was not counterfeit. Many of you even called the Fulfillment Office to check out the new currency. Then you made an informed decision to exchange some of your depreciating US dollars for some appreciating gold and silver based Liberty Dollars in specie, paper warehouse receipts and digital form.

Owning gold and silver in any form is not illegal! Over 500,000 individual legal binding warehouse receipts have been issued over the past ten years. Over 25,000+ individuals have visited our site and gotten Liberty Dollars. Neither you nor I are guilty.

Nor did you violate Title 18, Section 486 either. Even US Mint Director Edmond C. Moy acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper warehouse receipts were not illegal. Section 486 only concerns "use" in metal form. You were not even using the gold and silver. Your property, your metal was stored in the warehouse. You are not guilty. You are a victim!

The gold and silver seized from the issuing warehouse was not the property of the Liberty Services, Liberty Dollar, myself, or even the warehouse... it remains the property of the bearer warehouse receipt holders. It is YOUR property. To date 3,086 people have signed up to be a party to the Lawsuit and GET THEIR PROPERTY BACK.

I ask again: Are you going to let the US government steal your property?!

As bad as all that is, the precious metals industry should be very concerned because if the government can confiscate our gold and silver, they can confiscate theirs. Any raid and liquidation of a private, independent gold and silver warehouse sets an extremely dangerous precedent by this damn government. Where is ICTA - Industry Council for Tangible Assets when we need them?

Now hear this! The government is moving aggressively right now to steal your property!! Please join the Lawsuit to recover the wrongful seizure of your property. If you have not signed up for the Wrongful Seizure Lawsuit (Class Action Lawsuit) do it NOW. It is the only way to get your property back. Please take action immediately! Click HERE to sign up!

Clarification on the Class Action Lawsuit. We have referred to the lawsuit to recover the wrongfully seized property of the Warehouse Receipts and the digital Liberty Dollar holders, as a Class Action Lawsuit. But as we already have 3111 names of the injured parties, this is not a class action lawsuit. We plan to list everybody by name on the lawsuit. We want the judge to see how many people the US government has injured. It is important for the judge to know that thousands of good people from all over the United States, who committed no crime, have been injured and need immediate restitution. We have now renamed the lawsuit to Wrongful Seizure Lawsuit.

Please read the affidavit to establish "Probable Cause" for the Search and Seizure Warrants and ask yourself, "Where is the crime? When did it happen? Where? Who is the injured party?" http://www.libertydollar.org/legal/p...yaffidavit.pdf

In Alert #4 I mentioned The Soviet-Style Attack on NORFED by Jacob Hornberger. This excellent commentary is available at: http://www.fff.org/comment/com0711j.asp

Another excellent commentary, Gestapo raid on coin-producing enterprise by Dr. Richard H. Timberlake, noted monetary economist and expert on the Fed, has been posted at: http://www.libertydollar.org/comment...1196838996.pdf.

Dozens of great commentaries are available on the Comment Page at: http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/lega...commentary.htm

Thank you for the compliments on getting the digital eLibertyDollar up and running. Please send your digital donations to: Donation@LibertyDollar.org .

While we accept digital Liberty Dollar for donation, it is those damn non-Federal non-Reserve IOU Notes that are needed for the legal defense. Physical Liberty Dollars in paper and digital form that we can auction on eBay for more depreciating FRNs would be greatly appreciated too.

We continue to have a problem getting a bank account open. For now, please send all checks and money orders simply made out to BERNARD.

BIG Thanks for your donations. I apologize that I simply do not have time to respond to all the letters and good wishes. But please keep including the letters. It is good to know you are aware that we are fighting for you and your property. You did nothing wrong!

Orders for Arrest Dollars are very appreciated too. A newly created order from is available HERE. Remember they will only be available until I am arrested. So if you want a specially hallmarked Arrest Dollar… please send order now. I have no idea when I will be arrested.

Now as we face the greatest monetary challenge since the Revolutionary War, lets work together to create a free and independent currency that provides us with "just weights and measures". We should not be ripped off by the government money!

Please support the Liberty Dollar with an Arrest Dollar and a donation. Sign up for the Wrongful Seizure Lawsuit today! Please don't let the government steal your money and drive the Liberty Dollar out of business.

BIG thanks for all the prayers, letters and donations we have received!!!

Every donation counts! Thank you!!

Bernard von NotHaus
Monetary Architect/Editor
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Old 12-14-2007, 10:45 AM   #2
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Quote:
While we accept digital Liberty Dollar for donation, it is those damn non-Federal non-Reserve IOU Notes that are needed for the legal defense.


And "Arrest Dollars"? Hey, maybe some of our customers will fall for this twice!
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Old 12-14-2007, 10:52 AM   #3
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Old 12-14-2007, 10:54 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu


And "Arrest Dollars"? Hey, maybe some of our customers will fall for this twice!

Fall for what? Gold is gold...
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Old 12-14-2007, 10:54 AM   #5
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Old 12-14-2007, 10:56 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John
Fall for what? Gold is gold...
Can you get an ounce of "Arrest Dollar" gold for the same price you can get an ounce of Krugerrands or bullion?
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Old 12-14-2007, 10:57 AM   #7
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On the bright side, they've actually provided some evidence that they didn't make the whole "we got raided" thing up to fleece more fools from their non-gold standard backed money.
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:02 AM   #8
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu
Can you get an ounce of "Arrest Dollar" gold for the same price you can get an ounce of Krugerrands or bullion?

I haven't checked the price of the Arrest Dollar, but the original coins that the government stole sold like Krugerrands... Sold for spot with a slight markup to cover costs.
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:18 AM   #9
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I don't have any sympathy for this clown. The DOJ said more than a year ago that what he was doing was illegal, and he continued to take money from people he had good reason to believe would lose all their money on the e-dollars and paper currency if there was any. For him to ask them for more now is just absurd.

In some ways this resembles MLM... You buy in by paying for stock from someone up the line, and your hope of gain rests in turning that inventory around again to others who want to buy into the system. If you have the coins you could gain by holding the items for a long time I guess, if/until the dollar depreciates below the premium on the precious metal you paid, but even then to realize the money you have to sell them to someone else and buy back into the regular US dollar.

It's all quite confusing, but after the pronouncement by the DOJ that it was illegal, if this were a stock it would have dropped off the map, like a pharm company whose key drug doesn't get approval. The risk made it a foolhardy investment. Unless you have the coins, in which case it seems like just paying an unnecessary premium on gold or silver.
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:21 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise
I don't have any sympathy for this clown. The DOJ said more than a year ago that what he was doing was illegal
You don't have the facts. There is nothing illegal about this. At the very least, he should have his day in court before they claim his property as their own. In fact, he hasn't even been arrested or charged with anything to my knowledge.

It amazes me the lack of respect that so-called conservatives around here have for property rights.
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John
I haven't checked the price of the Arrest Dollar, but the original coins that the government stole sold like Krugerrands... Sold for spot with a slight markup to cover costs.
You left out "profit". I'd be interested to see the profit margin of the two side by side. I suspect that the Liberty Dollar folks were able to squeeze a bit more out of their customers than the Krugerrand folks.
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:36 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John
At the very least, he should have his day in court before they claim his property as their own.
I do agree with that. I forgot to mention it because as much as I despise the forfeiture laws and practices of our government, that thought was overshadowed by the audacity of this guy trying to re-fleece his already fleeced customers.
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:38 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu
You left out "profit". I'd be interested to see the profit margin of the two side by side. I suspect that the Liberty Dollar folks were able to squeeze a bit more out of their customers than the Krugerrand folks.


I consider "profit" part of costs. But your empty and baseless suspicion is noted. You just want to be a contrarian. There's no principle in what you're saying.

You're increasingly turning into a liberal in your argument style.
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:41 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John
You don't have the facts. There is nothing illegal about this. At the very least, he should have his day in court before they claim his property as their own. In fact, he hasn't even been arrested or charged with anything to my knowledge.

It amazes me the lack of respect that so-called conservatives around here have for property rights.
I didn't say a word about the seizure or property rights or anything else. I don't think his property should be liquidated before the legal proceedings are carried out.

I called the guy a borderline crook for continuing to take money in when he knew that the DOJ said it appeared to violate title 18 and was likely to act.

I don't think this meets the definition of a security, but if it did this might constitute securities fraud, because he knew or should have known that investors were going to lose their money and egregiously misrepresented it as a safe investment.
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:44 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John
I consider "profit" part of costs. But your empty and baseless suspicion is noted. You just want to be a contrarian. There's no principle in what you're saying.

You're increasingly turning into a liberal in your argument style.
Keep trying patteeu, you only have a little ways to go to reach "socialist". I don't think you'll ever catch me at "Marxist" though.
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