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Old 01-02-2008, 12:49 AM  
wutamess wutamess is offline
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What is a communist?

Watching the Great debaters and someone suggested that someone else was a communist. Oswald was a suspected communist. What does that mean?

Doesn't that mean supporter of Russia?
If so... How does that go against our government?

Any help would be appreciated.
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Old 01-02-2008, 12:51 AM   #2
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Communism is a socioeconomic structure that promotes establishment of a classless, stateless society based on common ownership of the means of production. It is usually considered a branch of the broader socialist movement that draws on the various political and intellectual movements that trace their origins back to the work of Karl Marx. Opponents say that communism is an ideology, whereas promoters say that it is the only political system without ideology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
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Old 01-02-2008, 12:53 AM   #3
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Basically, you'd have to be a moron to believe in communism. It asks people to not want to get ahead, to not think about themselves first, and to not expect more from life than the bare minimum. The entire philosophy goes against human nature.
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Old 01-02-2008, 12:56 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John
Communism is a socioeconomic structure that promotes establishment of a classless, stateless society based on common ownership of the means of production. It is usually considered a branch of the broader socialist movement that draws on the various political and intellectual movements that trace their origins back to the work of Karl Marx. Opponents say that communism is an ideology, whereas promoters say that it is the only political system without ideology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

I understand what the government is/means...
But why were people so afraid of it and shunned upon because of it?
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Old 01-02-2008, 01:04 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wutamess
I understand what the government is/means...
But why were people so afraid of it and shunned upon because of it?
Because, in addition to the questionable theories behind communism, the "communists" people were talking about at the time were, more accurately, "Stalinists" and the doings of Lenin and Stalin had a taint far beyond being just communists.
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Old 01-02-2008, 01:09 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikesome
Because, in addition to the questionable theories behind communism, the "communists" people were talking about at the time were, more accurately, "Stalinists" and the doings of Lenin and Stalin had a taint far beyond being just communists.
There an english version of this transcript somewhere?
I'm not real political.
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Old 01-02-2008, 01:13 AM   #7
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It speaks well of human progress that for the most part, no one needs explain that Communism is bad. Merely invoking its name sends people backpedaling explaining how their socialist construct is not really Communism.

Thankfully, it's a blip on the pages of human history, an idea that was barely 150 years from origination to being hauled off to the junkyard - although, in some respects, it seems people have not learned all history's lessons regarding it.
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Old 01-02-2008, 01:16 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wutamess
I understand what the government is/means...
But why were people so afraid of it and shunned upon because of it?


The real simple answer is this: because if you don't fit into a communist society you either go to jail or are executed. It's a treacherous philosophy.
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Old 01-02-2008, 01:20 AM   #9
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I'm not getting any real answers.

I guess what I'm asking is...

Oswald in JFK was believed to be a communist.
Why was that a bad thing? Were they wanting to make USA a communist territory? Was he like deemed a spy for Communism or Russia?

It seemed as lots of people were tagged communist like some sort of wild witch hunt.
Why? Was there a moment?
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Old 01-02-2008, 01:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wutamess
There an english version of this transcript somewhere?
I'm not real political.
Stalinism is just what they called the brand of communism that Lenin and Stalin set up in the Soviet Union. Lenin had secret police removing "Enemies of the Revolution" and , when Stalin took over it got far worse. Stalin made Hitler look like small fry. There were many things that the USSR did (relocation, seizures, imprisoning and killing of the previous ruling class) that not only weren't required parts of communist theory but were also carried out with a high level of brutality and violence. Marx's writings (the theoretical basis for Soviet communism) are, kinda, like the teachings of Islamic Fundamentalists, with a "Jihad" against the capitalists and that was the foundation for what most of the world saw as "communism". Hence the reason many people were scared of communists.

Maybe I'll clean this up a bit in the morning, just because I think it makes sense at 0130 doesn't mean it is.
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Old 01-02-2008, 01:24 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikesome
Stalinism is just what they called the brand of communism that Lenin and Stalin set up in the Soviet Union. Lenin had secret police removing "Enemies of the Revolution" and , when Stalin took over it got far worse. Stalin made Hitler look like small fry. There were many things that the USSR did (relocation, seizures, imprisoning and killing of the previous ruling class) that not only weren't required parts of communist theory but were also carried out with a high level of brutality and violence. Marx's writings (the theoretical basis for Soviet communism) are, kinda, like the teachings of Islamic Fundamentalists, with a "Jihad" against the capitalists and that was the foundation for what most of the world saw as "communism". Hence the reason many people were scared of communists.

Maybe I'll clean this up a bit in the morning, just because I think it makes sense at 0130 doesn't mean it is.
That makes a lot of sense but why did it affect our history so much?
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Old 01-02-2008, 08:17 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wutamess
I'm not getting any real answers.

I guess what I'm asking is...

Oswald in JFK was believed to be a communist.
Why was that a bad thing? Were they wanting to make USA a communist territory? Was he like deemed a spy for Communism or Russia?

It seemed as lots of people were tagged communist like some sort of wild witch hunt.
Why? Was there a moment?
That's your answer. There was a global communist revolution underway at the time. The Soviets were attempting to sow the seeds of communism throughout the world and our own domestic communists (who looked to the Soviet Union as the motherland of their utopian ideology) were looking forward to the day when the revolution would come to the US and replace our system of capitalism and individual freedom with their system of communism and collective rights.

It's similar to the way Islamists are trying to establish a new caliphate and bring the world islamic law. And it's also similar to the way the west is trying to spread liberal, democratic ideals. Of course, from our perspective, the latter is a benefit and both communism and islamism are not. But if you were a communist or an islamist, you'd probably feel differently about it.
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Old 01-02-2008, 08:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wutamess
I'm not getting any real answers.

I guess what I'm asking is...

Oswald in JFK was believed to be a communist.
Why was that a bad thing? Were they wanting to make USA a communist territory? Was he like deemed a spy for Communism or Russia?

It seemed as lots of people were tagged communist like some sort of wild witch hunt.
Why? Was there a moment?
Dana Perino says, read up on the Bay of Pigs and Cuban Missile Crisis.
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Old 01-02-2008, 12:36 PM   #14
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From the late 1940s until late 1980s, the US and Russia were engaged in a (mostly) "Cold" war to control the path of many nations around the world with regard to their economic, social and political structure. Russia sought world domination, and the US resisted.

Russia was communist, and our enemy. Anything labeled "communist" was therefore automatically bad.

If you can relate to it better, it's akin to calling someone a "Nazi" during WWII.

Read up on: 1. The Berlin Airlift, 2. The Korean War, 3. The nuclear arms race, 4. The Cuban Missile Crisis, and 5. the McCarthy era (juts Wiki for each is fine), and you'll have a much broader grasp of the scope of the conflict.
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Old 01-02-2008, 12:56 PM   #15
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Communism has been around forever in various forms but it didn't reach a ww political movement until the middle of the 19th century. At that time, both communism and socialism were used interchangeably which is correct afaic.

Socialism is the dictatorship of the people phase, so to speak as in the govt centralizing power to control the means of production ( which is basically you and me). Then the state is supposed to wither away and everybody just shares everything equally. That's the communist phase. Only that part never happens. One reason is because the few don't like to give up power once it has it. The few having such power in the hands of the state, the apparachiks, in the name of the people but which really is an oligarchy. So it's a fraud in that sense.

Today most people, including Americans and Republicans, believe in and advocate some socialist aka communist ideas without even knowing it. We are a bit more than half way there per Marx's ten planks. I had a thread up with 40 something questions taken right from Marx's planks and writings. One yes answer means you agree with that socialist plank at least. Half then you're quasi. Some republicans answered half of them yes.Sorry, just the way I see it. Ideas trickle down from intellectuals into the society.

Todays ncs are more nationalist socialists ( fascists) and the left are more internationalist socialists. Ya' know deference to the UN etc. with the end goal being a world govt.
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