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Old 01-02-2008, 10:39 PM  
irishjayhawk irishjayhawk is offline
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A Question of a comparison

I'm expecting patteeu to roll his eyes at this question but it seems pretty clear to me.

Anyway, my comparison is:

Communism to Islam.


Is that an unfair comparison? If so, why? (Other than one is political and one is religious, arguably)
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Old 01-02-2008, 10:41 PM   #2
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Actually, they're both religions, when you boil it down. In one religion, they believe that the state is the ultimate, and in the other, they believe in Allah.
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:04 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John
Actually, they're both religions, when you boil it down. In one religion, they believe that the state is the ultimate, and in the other, they believe in Allah.
Fair point, actually. Didn't think about it that way.

Would you agree that our fight now versus Islam is the same as the 60s fight against Communism? Then protecting Democracy and now protecting Christianity (in the a guised way)
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:11 PM   #4
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John
..
Communism is a form of socialism, but not all socialism is communism. Please remember that, folks.

Oh, and if we are to take your comparison at face value, then our religion is "democracy" and all we are doing is fighting a series of holy wars.
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishjayhawk
Fair point, actually. Didn't think about it that way.

Would you agree that our fight now versus Islam is the same as the 60s fight against Communism? Then protecting Democracy and now protecting Christianity (in the a guised way)
That is not even close, as an analogy...UNLESS you want to equate "democracy" with "Christianity" which, even I, would say is ludicrous IMHO.

Communism, and radical Islam, ARE comparable in that both. but only insofaras each has/will....expose[d] our nation to great national security dangers. Both fights, however, are about one thing; preserving democracy, as we know it, in the real world.
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter
That is not even close, as an analogy...UNLESS you want to equate "democracy" with "Christianity" which, even I, would say is ludicrous IMHO.
Why would you have to equate those two? I'm lost at what you're getting at.

Quote:
Communism, and radical Islam, ARE comparable in that both. but only insofaras each has/will....expose[d] our nation to great national security dangers. Both fights, however, are about one thing; preserving democracy, as we know it, in the real world.
I think I'm missing something between both and but. there.

And while it is true that both fights are preserving democracy, it isn't necessarily NOT true that it's not against Christianity, too.
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishjayhawk
And while it is true that both fights are preserving democracy, it isn't necessarily NOT true that it's not against Christianity, too.
It isn't necessarily not true that it's not?

I'm not sure if that isn't necessarily not the case.

I'm going to go pray for clarity now.
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:24 PM   #8
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The Cold War was not about preserving democracy. That's a completely ridiculous statement. If it was, we had a hell of a way of showing it by throwing out democratically elected socialists in several countries (Sandanistas, Allende, etc.) in order to install pro-capitalism, authoritarians.

The Cold War was about preserving capitalism. Don't conflate the two.
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishjayhawk
Fair point, actually. Didn't think about it that way.

Would you agree that our fight now versus Islam is the same as the 60s fight against Communism? Then protecting Democracy and now protecting Christianity (in the a guised way)

I sure wouldn't say that. The fight against Islam to me is a skirmish... a side show. I think that if they didn't have us to join forces to fight against, they'd do what they've done for thousands of years: fight against themselves.

They didn't focus on us until recent decades, when we decided to start re-arranging their society to benefit our commercial goals - namely oil.
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins
Communism is a form of socialism, but not all socialism is communism. Please remember that, folks.

Oh, and if we are to take your comparison at face value, then our religion is "democracy" and all we are doing is fighting a series of holy wars.

I think some view democracy as the new-age Christianity. The first time, we crusaded to push Christianity. This time around, we're Crusading for democracy. In reality though, neither are the real reasons we're crusading. They're just the friendly face that we're putting on our greed to make the rank and file feel noble about the cause.

We don't honestly give two straws about democracies in muslim countries. If we did, we wouldn't be backing so many ruthless dictators around the world. Also, if we did, we'd have a lot of democracies voting in Anti-American policies, which is why we're continually backing ruthless dictators around the world. They're easier to bribe than entire parliments.
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins
The Cold War was not about preserving democracy. That's a completely ridiculous statement. If it was, we had a hell of a way of showing it by throwing out democratically elected socialists in several countries (Sandanistas, Allende, etc.) in order to install pro-capitalism, authoritarians.

The Cold War was about preserving capitalism. Don't conflate the two.
Democracy is, sometimes, unfairly conflated with tyranny of an illiterate and ignorant "majority".....that's the ONLY conflation going on here.
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:34 PM   #12
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter
Democracy is, sometimes, unfairly conflated with tyranny of an illiterate and ignorant "majority".....that's the ONLY conflation going on here.


Sorry dude, I just don't see your point at all in reference to that post. I was talking about the US's support of dictators over the elected majority, I was not making a pejorative statement about democracy.
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:36 PM   #13
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John
I think some view democracy as the new-age Christianity. The first time, we crusaded to push Christianity. This time around, we're Crusading for democracy. In reality though, neither are the real reasons we're crusading. They're just the friendly face that we're putting on our green to make the rank and file feel noble about the cause.

We don't honestly give two straws about democracies in muslim countries. If we did, we wouldn't be backing so many ruthless dictators around the world. Also, if we did, we'd have a lot of democracies voting in Anti-American policies, which is why we're continually backing ruthless dictators around the world. They're easier to bribe than entire parliments.
Yup.
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins


Sorry dude, I just don't see your point at all in reference to that post. I was talking about the US's support of dictators over the elected majority, I was not making a pejorative statement about democracy.


He's just trying to say something to sound intellectual.

You know that guy who knows nothing about weed, but cant stop talking about it around the stoners. He's that guy, only around politics.
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:39 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins


Sorry dude, I just don't see your point at all in reference to that post. I was talking about the US's support of dictators over the elected majority, I was not making a pejorative statement about democracy.
It's pretty simple, really. Calling the democracies you cited .... "Democracy" as commonly understood in the West ...is an insult, to the notion of democracy itself.

The ONLY reasons "majorities" supported the Socialistic tyrants you cite, is due to two reasons; corruption and graft that was the same as that which they professed to be fighting, and illiteracy and ignorance of "common people" in understanding the nature of what a socialistic government really is, in real life.
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