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Old 03-06-2008, 05:22 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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California trying to turn home schoolers into criminals

Children are just government property, apparently.



Court: Teaching Credential Required To Home School

LOS ANGELES (AP) ―

California parents who don't have teaching credentials no longer can home school their children, according to a recent state appellate court ruling.

"Parents do not have a constitutional right to home school their children," Justice H. Walter Croskey wrote in a Feb. 28 opinion for the 2nd District Court of Appeals.

Noncompliance could lead to a criminal complaint against the parents, Croskey said.

An estimated 166,000 students in California are home schooled.

California has allowed home schooling if parents either file paperwork to establish themselves as small, private schools; hire a credentialed tutor; or enroll their child in an independent study program run by an established school while teaching the child at home.

Until now, the state has left it up to local school districts to enforce those provisions. The districts have done little.

This undeclared police of laissez-faire has been popular with many.

"This works so well, I don't see any reason to change it," said J. Michael Smith, president of the Virginia-based Home School Legal Defense Association.

The ruling stems from a case involving Phillip and Mary Long, a Los Angeles-area couple whose eight children are enrolled or have been enrolled in Sunland Christian School in suburban Sylmar and occasionally taken tests there.

But the children were educated at home by their mother, Phillip Long said. Mary Long does not have a teaching credential.

News of the court ruling is only starting to spread among educators and the home schooling communities, and it's unclear whether the ruling will be enforced. Attorneys for the State Department of Education are reviewing it, and home schooling organizations are lining up against it.

Phillip Long, meanwhile, is vowing to appeal to the State Supreme Court.

"I have sincerely held religious beliefs," he said. "Public schools conflict with that. I have to go with what my conscience requires me."
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Old 03-06-2008, 05:29 PM   #2
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Old 03-06-2008, 05:39 PM   #3
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Doesn't everyone know the government educates better than any other institution?
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Old 03-06-2008, 05:43 PM   #4
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"Parents do not have a constitutional right to home school their children,"

This is the dumbest friggin thing I have heard out of liberals since, well, that thread about Obama
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Old 03-06-2008, 05:57 PM   #5
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That battle has been going in Cali for awhile. Much like the early homeschooling went through in the 80s per what I hear but that was fought too. Now some states have been more favorable since then. Don't know what's up with Cali. To the statists it's really about control of children—what's put in their heads. Sheep ranches. The teaching credential is just a red-herring. I see this going all the way to the SC.
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Old 03-06-2008, 06:03 PM   #6
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Homeschooling, much like public schooling, is a mixed bag. I do believe it needs some closer monitoring process. In certain communities it's a way to keep the kids at home, indentured and working for their parents, while they get virtually nil for education. Some of these same people love to suck on the government teat as well, having 9-10 kids with tons of government assistance. In those situations, I don't particularly like it.

I lived and studied at L'Abri in England, though, and all of those kids were homeschooled there. It was amazingly awesome, and they were amazingly awesome kids.
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Old 03-06-2008, 06:06 PM   #7
Taco John Taco John is offline
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It's issues like this that make me understand the "Liberals this" and "Liberals that" meme that gets out there. Trying to say that there is no constitutional right to home school is about as dishonest as it gets. There's no constitutional mandate for the government to control schools period -- not to collect money for it... not to regulate it. It doesn't exist.

The school issue irritates me to no end... The only solution that the left offers is to throw as much money at a failing system as possible, and when that doesn't work, blame not having enough funding as the reasons it's failing. Meanwhile, homeschoolers are giving their kids a quality education at a fraction of the costs.

Leave them alone. Get off their backs. They're not your kids to worry about.
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Old 03-06-2008, 06:11 PM   #8
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And for what it's worth, School should only be mandatory up to age 12 in my opinion. After that, it's a choice. The public school system would improve virtually overnight. The drug and weapon problem at school would dissipate into thin air. There'd still be instances. But it wouldn't be rampant like it is now.
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Old 03-06-2008, 07:13 PM   #9
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*shrug* I agree with the ruling. The courts did not strike down home-schooling, they just insisted that the parents prove they know what the hell they are doing.

I'm more worried about the rights of the kids here than I am of the parents, because the really good ones who do home schooling well are going to be fine. Suppose the parents want the kids to stay home for whatever stupid reason and they use home-schooling as a lame excuse? Suppose the parents are just retarded? (or merely stupid if not clinically retarded). Or lazy?

If the parents show the desire and ability to do a good job with home-schooling, then I'm absolutely on board with requireing the government to let them do it, but there has to be SOME kind of standards. If you cant or wont meet some basic educational standards, then I disagree that there's a fundamental "right" to home-school, because the rights of those kids trump the whim of the parent.

In the law, the best interests of the children ALWAYS, ALWAYS take precedence over the rights of the parents, and the kids have a right to some kind of an education. You can whine about public school if you want, but thats not a blanket pass to get out of showing that a particular home-schooling parent can do and is doing an adequate job.
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Old 03-06-2008, 07:13 PM   #10
Jenson71 Jenson71 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
And for what it's worth, School should only be mandatory up to age 12 in my opinion. After that, it's a choice. The public school system would improve virtually overnight. The drug and weapon problem at school would dissipate into thin air. There'd still be instances. But it wouldn't be rampant like it is now.
Is that because you think those kids would stop going to school at age 12?

If it's the parents choice, who would want their kids to stop going to school after 6th grade? What would their kids do?
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Old 03-06-2008, 07:15 PM   #11
Jenson71 Jenson71 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
*shrug* I agree with the ruling. The courts did not strike down home-schooling, they just insisted that the parents prove they know what the hell they are doing.

I'm more worried about the rights of the kids here than I am of the parents, because the really good ones who do home schooling well are going to be fine. Suppose the parents want the kids to stay home for whatever stupid reason and they use home-schooling as a lame excuse? Suppose the parents are just retarded? (or merely stupid if not clinically retarded).

If the parents show the desire and ability to do a good job with home-schooling, then I'm absolutely on board with requireing the government to let them do it, but there has to be SOME kind of standards. If you cant or wont meet some basic educational standards, then I disagree that there's a fundamental "right" to home-school, because the rights of those kids trump the whim of the parent.
I agree with this post.
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Old 03-06-2008, 07:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
*shrug* I agree with the ruling. The courts did not strike down home-schooling, they just insisted that the parents prove they know what the hell they are doing.

I'm more worried about the rights of the kids here than I am of the parents, because the really good ones who do home schooling well are going to be fine. Suppose the parents want the kids to stay home for whatever stupid reason and they use home-schooling as a lame excuse? Suppose the parents are just retarded? (or merely stupid if not clinically retarded). Or lazy?

If the parents show the desire and ability to do a good job with home-schooling, then I'm absolutely on board with requireing the government to let them do it, but there has to be SOME kind of standards. If you cant or wont meet some basic educational standards, then I disagree that there's a fundamental "right" to home-school, because the rights of those kids trump the whim of the parent.

In the law, the best interests of the children ALWAYS, ALWAYS take precedence over the rights of the parents, and the kids have a right to some kind of an education. You can whine about public school if you want, but thats not a blanket pass to get out of showing that a particular home-schooling parent can do and is doing an adequate job.
I'm inclined to agree.

The state doesn't let you perform surgery on your kid without accreditation, but I suppose that also means your kid "is state property".
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Old 03-06-2008, 07:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MurphDog View Post
"Parents do not have a constitutional right to home school their children,"

This is the dumbest friggin thing I have heard out of liberals since, well, that thread about Obama
This is about the dumbest post I've read in a long time on the 'Planet.

California is the largest state in the Union according to population. The economy in California is the fifth largest in the world - larger than the country of France. Allowing anyone to home school without credentials in this state is tenuous at best.

America is already trailing several other countries in education. We're losing tech jobs and our science is no longer number one worldwide. And while I am usually against more government involvement, this actually makes sense on many levels.

The children of California public school are already behind in education due to the large illegal (and legal) Hispanic population. Mixed language classes tend to go much slower due to the language barrier. And while you might say "Hey, I'll just home-school", who's to say that the parent is actually qualified to home school?

I don't know what the solution for better education in America would be do I do think it's time for a National Language requirement. There are far, far too many organizations and government agencies that cater to Spanish speaking people. Not only is it slowing their development regarding education, but it's going to create a huge rift in this country in merely 20 years.

But "Home-School" educators should be required to pass certain tests or to have certain credentials. Otherwise, we're just further dumbing down the population.
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Old 03-06-2008, 07:41 PM   #14
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There should be checks like standardized testing to make sure the kids measure up. I think that makes sense.

But I won't be surprised when leftier locales try to brand homeschooling as child abuse...
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Old 03-06-2008, 07:43 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
America is already trailing several other countries in education. We're losing tech jobs and our science is no longer number one worldwide.
We're not losing tech jobs because our tech workers are poorly educated, just like we don't lose manufacturing jobs because people are unqualified for those.
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