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Old 03-10-2008, 09:16 AM  
jAZ jAZ is offline
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Is the Clinton campaign seeking "steal" Obama's elected delegates?

Hillary: Pledged Delegates Can Switch Candidates
By Eric Kleefeld - March 9, 2008, 11:00PM
A few weeks ago the Clinton campaign shot down a report that they would seek to entice Barack Obama's pledged delegates into flipping over. Now the idea is being floated again ó by Hillary herself.

"There are elected delegates, caucus delegates and super-delegates, all for different reasons, and they're all equal in their ability to cast their vote for whomever they choose," Hillary told Newsweek, when asked how she can win the nomination despite the current delegate math.

"Even elected and caucus delegates are not required to stay with whomever they are pledged to. This is a very carefully constructed process that goes back years, and we're going to follow the process."

(Via Mark Halperin)

Late Update: Hillary spokesperson Phil Singer e-mailed Election Central to say that his previous statement on this ó that the Hillary camp has not and will not pursue Obama's pledged delegates ó is still operative and that there's been no change of position. It's worth noting that in the Newsweek interview, Hillary didn't say outright that she would be pursuing them, and merely stated what the rules governing the delegates are (which can be read as implying possible pursuit of them later, of course).
Despite the denial, her comment doesn't appear to be off hand or unintended. Her campaign manager for delegates said the same thing out of no-where.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi...not_bound.html
Ickes: Pledged, but not bound


On a conference call with reporters, Clinton aide Harold Ickes noted that pledged delegates aren't formally bound to vote for the candidate they're elected to support.

"That binding rule was knocked out in 1980," he said. Ickes didn't actually suggest that the Clinton campaign would court pledged delegates, something they've disavowed; he just stated the rule. Still, an interesting note.

He also rejected my suggestion that Clinton needs to damage Obama, or prove he's not viable, to win.

"This is not a question fo trying to damage somebody Ė this si a question fo trying to fully understand all the particular aspects of each of the candidates," he said. "We think that she has been vetted for the last 15 years. Thereís not another shoe in her closet to drop. It is clear that too much is yet unknown about Senator Obama."

ALSO: Ickes can't resist a little jab at Mark Penn, also on the call.

"Iím not going to make any predictions. Iíll leave that up to Mark," he says.
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Old 03-10-2008, 09:21 AM   #2
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Old 03-10-2008, 09:34 AM   #3
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This doesn't seem like an option she wouldn't take.

Depending on how much ruthlessness you think our Supreme Potentate needs, maybe this is a mark in her favor for the nomination.
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Old 03-10-2008, 09:36 AM   #4
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Is there a reason she wouldn't/shouldn't try to steal them?
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Old 03-10-2008, 09:36 AM   #5
jAZ jAZ is offline
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Originally Posted by pikesome View Post
Depending on how much ruthlessness you think our Supreme Potentate needs, maybe this is a mark in her favor for the nomination.
When did "ruthless" become a valued quality in an elected leader?
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Old 03-10-2008, 09:37 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Is there a reason she wouldn't/shouldn't try to steal them?
Ask them, they seem to be denying the strategy.
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Old 03-10-2008, 09:43 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by jAZ View Post
When did "ruthless" become a valued quality in an elected leader?
Besides the not-obvious-enough dig at Hillary, there is a certain amount of drive El Jefe (or La Jefa in this case) needs. Once it gets to the point you'd call it "ruthless" it's probably gone too far however.
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4. Performance enhancing drugs:

A) are my ticket to the Hall of Fame.
B) would be better if they tasted like fruit and were shaped like various Flintstones characters.
C) are not for me, because I find that cocaine aids my performance much more effectively.
D) apparently worked for Rodney Harrison.
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Old 03-10-2008, 09:46 AM   #8
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Old 03-10-2008, 09:48 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Is there a reason she wouldn't/shouldn't try to steal them?
If you're cool with fracturing the party and turning what should have been a cakewalk in November into an almost certain loss, then no, there aren't any arguments against this.
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Old 03-10-2008, 09:51 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Delegates are free to change


Alex, I'll take "What is disenfranchising voters?" for $500.
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4. Performance enhancing drugs:

A) are my ticket to the Hall of Fame.
B) would be better if they tasted like fruit and were shaped like various Flintstones characters.
C) are not for me, because I find that cocaine aids my performance much more effectively.
D) apparently worked for Rodney Harrison.
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Old 03-10-2008, 09:51 AM   #11
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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The real point is that the delegates have an obligation to the party first. Doing what they believe is the best thing for the overall good and the ultimate success in the election. Over the past few weeks the bloom is off the Obama rose...the delegates can see that under presuure the golden halo is not gold...he is shallow on his plans and the press is seeing that. The Texas and Ohio effort shows how strong Hillary really is and how good a campaigner she is when the focus is on issues and content.
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Old 03-10-2008, 09:52 AM   #12
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Is there any party rule that says they are required to go with who their state votes for? I didn't think there was.

All this hand wringing about what Clinton is doing that is within the rules, about delegates and superdelegates... if you guys don't like it, maybe you should pressure the party fat cats to give up their final say over who gets the nomination.
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Old 03-10-2008, 09:57 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
The real point is that the delegates have an obligation to the party first. Doing what they believe is the best thing for the overall good and the ultimate success in the election. Over the past few weeks the bloom is off the Obama rose...the delegates can see that under presuure the golden halo is not gold...he is shallow on his plans and the press is seeing that. The Texas and Ohio effort shows how strong Hillary really is and how good a campaigner she is when the focus is on issues and content.
Your and idiot.

In other news, Dewey defeats Truman!
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Old 03-10-2008, 10:28 AM   #14
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Is there a reason she wouldn't/shouldn't try to steal them?
No kidding. Those delegates are not bound by a damn thing until they actually cast a vote. They can pledge a different candidate daily if they wish.

I actually don't agree with the stealing characterization. She's being a POLITICIAN. All is fair in love and war in that game. Obama will have to decide to keep his image in tact and not play the game and face losing or he'll ditch his carefully crafted (IMO false) image and decide to play to win. Either way, he's not going to win easy.
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Old 03-10-2008, 10:34 AM   #15
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