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Old 03-16-2008, 04:22 PM  
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Obama: The Consistently Political Politician

From Paul Mirengoff of Powerline:

Peter Wehner takes a detailed look at Barack Obama’s positions with respect to Iraq. Despite what Obama would like voters (especially Democratic primary voters) to believe, Obama has not always opposed the Bush administration on the war. In fact, according to Wehner, Obama told the Chicago Tribune in July 2004, “There’s not that much difference between my position and George Bush’s position at this stage.”

Wehner’s piece is fairly long but will repay the time spent reading it in full. Here, though, is the bottom line:
Unlike his presidential rival John McCain, an early and vocal and truly consistent critic of the Bush administration’s counterinsurgency strategy in Iraq, Obama. . .was opposed to doing anything about Iraq even when, like everyone else, he believed Saddam Hussein was a menace who was likely armed with weapons of mass destruction; became a supporter of the war after the fact and remained one even as things were going poorly; and morphed into an aggressive opponent again just as the prospects of an American victory began to brighten. If there is a consistency here, it would appear to be the consistency of one consistently divorced from the facts on the ground and, lately, almost hermetically sealed off from even the possibility of good news. In a politician admired for his supposed open-mindedness and his ready willingness to consider new evidence, this is, to say the least, striking.

But perhaps a different kind of consistency is to be discerned in this maze. When Obama opposed the war in 2002, it was clearly in his political interest to do so; according to Dan Shomon, his campaign manager at the time, the key to Obama’s chances in the Democratic race for the Senate nomination lay in his ability to rally the Left to his side. Then, in 2004, when the war was still supported by most Americans, he associated himself with the Bush occupation strategy. In 2005, as Iraq was becoming increasingly unpopular, he temporized by joining those saying we had to reduce but not withdraw our troop presence. By 2006, with the war’s unpopularity deepening, he embraced a policy of full-scale withdrawal. . . .

[W]hat all this suggests is that Barack Obama does not represent an authentic new “brand” in American politics; rather, he has shown himself to be an exceptionally adept political animal who can adjust to the prevailing political winds with seamless ease. As the election season progresses, it remains to be seen what tortuously defended new positions will be embraced by this consistently political politician, and what price they will exact in his reputation as a principled and courageous new voice.
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Old 03-16-2008, 04:25 PM   #2
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Old 03-16-2008, 04:31 PM   #3
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I do wonder what lot of Obama supporters have to say regarding this. Most of the time when I bring this point up, they say I just hate hope and change and tell me to **** off.
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Old 03-16-2008, 04:47 PM   #4
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Old 03-16-2008, 05:48 PM   #5
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I am as disappointed and will change my vote as much as Bush's change about Global Warming and curbing of CO 2 changed my vote. I am not looking for consistency. Hell I have had enough of that with this Presidents approach to Iraq. And I am not looking for a new brand of politician just someone new.
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Old 03-16-2008, 06:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
From Paul Mirengoff of Powerline:

Peter Wehner takes a detailed look at Barack Obama’s positions with respect to Iraq. Despite what Obama would like voters (especially Democratic primary voters) to believe, Obama has not always opposed the Bush administration on the war. In fact, according to Wehner, Obama told the Chicago Tribune in July 2004, “There’s not that much difference between my position and George Bush’s position at this stage.”

Wehner’s piece is fairly long but will repay the time spent reading it in full. Here, though, is the bottom line:
Unlike his presidential rival John McCain, an early and vocal and truly consistent critic of the Bush administration’s counterinsurgency strategy in Iraq, Obama. . .was opposed to doing anything about Iraq even when, like everyone else, he believed Saddam Hussein was a menace who was likely armed with weapons of mass destruction; became a supporter of the war after the fact and remained one even as things were going poorly; and morphed into an aggressive opponent again just as the prospects of an American victory began to brighten. If there is a consistency here, it would appear to be the consistency of one consistently divorced from the facts on the ground and, lately, almost hermetically sealed off from even the possibility of good news. In a politician admired for his supposed open-mindedness and his ready willingness to consider new evidence, this is, to say the least, striking.

But perhaps a different kind of consistency is to be discerned in this maze. When Obama opposed the war in 2002, it was clearly in his political interest to do so; according to Dan Shomon, his campaign manager at the time, the key to Obama’s chances in the Democratic race for the Senate nomination lay in his ability to rally the Left to his side. Then, in 2004, when the war was still supported by most Americans, he associated himself with the Bush occupation strategy. In 2005, as Iraq was becoming increasingly unpopular, he temporized by joining those saying we had to reduce but not withdraw our troop presence. By 2006, with the war’s unpopularity deepening, he embraced a policy of full-scale withdrawal. . . .

[W]hat all this suggests is that Barack Obama does not represent an authentic new “brand” in American politics; rather, he has shown himself to be an exceptionally adept political animal who can adjust to the prevailing political winds with seamless ease. As the election season progresses, it remains to be seen what tortuously defended new positions will be embraced by this consistently political politician, and what price they will exact in his reputation as a principled and courageous new voice.
I remember McCain spent the 2004 campaign on the trail side by side with B*sh, saying stay the course and I sure don't remember him as any dedicated opponent of the strategy, if he was he kept a lid on that until 2005 or 2006.

Some fools just believe anything that they read without even trying to rely on their own memory.
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Old 03-16-2008, 06:06 PM   #7
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Is it just me, or is it strange to see pat and denise agree on something?
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Old 03-16-2008, 06:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jettio View Post
I remember McCain spent the 2004 campaign on the trail side by side with B*sh, saying stay the course and I sure don't remember him as any dedicated opponent of the strategy, if he was he kept a lid on that until 2005 or 2006.

Some fools just believe anything that they read without even trying to rely on their own memory.
That's funny. You've got a memory like a bear trap. Or maybe like a broken mouse trap.
Posted 11/5/2003 5:44 PM Updated 11/6/2003 10:07 PM

McCain: Force levels in Iraq inadequate
By Barbara Slavin, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — Sen. John McCain sharply criticized the Bush administration's conduct of the Iraq war Wednesday, saying the United States should send at least 15,000 more troops or risk "the most serious American defeat on the global stage since Vietnam."

more...
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Old 03-16-2008, 06:17 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
Is it just me, or is it strange to see pat and denise agree on something?
Well if it helps any, she wants Obama to lose the nomination and I want him to win it.
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Old 03-16-2008, 06:21 PM   #10
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That's funny. You've got a memory like a bear trap. Or maybe like a broken mouse trap.
Posted 11/5/2003 5:44 PM Updated 11/6/2003 10:07 PM

McCain: Force levels in Iraq inadequate
By Barbara Slavin, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — Sen. John McCain sharply criticized the Bush administration's conduct of the Iraq war Wednesday, saying the United States should send at least 15,000 more troops or risk "the most serious American defeat on the global stage since Vietnam."

more...

Wow. McCain called for 15,000 more troops to stave off defeat and nobody listened to him.

That is great leadership. I suppose after nobody listened to him, He decided to get behind B*sh and Rumsfeld even though he disagreed with them.

Sounds like a political politician, thinking they are right, but willing to kiss azz and pretend like everything is okay.

McCain's political politician compromises are going to cost him a lot more on this issue than Obama.
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Old 03-16-2008, 06:22 PM   #11
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He's spent 2 years of his constituents' time running for president, rather than not being absent for voting.

Understandably, the democrats have a front running person of color. Buy, hey, I wanted Keyes to win earlier.

Obama wants something new. So do most of Americans. Something new, something tabled. He can't talk the game after he's in it.
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Old 03-16-2008, 07:58 PM   #12
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Is it just me, or is it strange to see pat and denise agree on something?
You don't know? They have been together for at least a month.
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Old 03-16-2008, 07:59 PM   #13
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“There’s not that much difference between my position and George Bush’s position at this stage.”

they key to the statement is "at this stage"

because wasn't this comment made by Obama because basically it was too late .... Bush has already committed us down the path and the only choice was to push forward.

i think i remember something to that extent.




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Old 03-16-2008, 08:15 PM   #14
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People are really digging now. There isnt much to find so it will eventually come down to punctuation. Obama placed a comma where it was obvious it should have been a period.
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Old 03-16-2008, 08:16 PM   #15
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People are really digging now. There isnt much to find so it will eventually come down to punctuation. Obama placed a comma where it was obvious it should have been a period.
Timely.
Obscure.
Hilarious.

That was an awesome post.
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