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Old 03-17-2008, 08:39 AM  
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Frank Shcaeffer weighs in on Obama

That's the son of Francis Schaeffer

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-...tml?view=print

Obama's Minister Committed "Treason" But When My Father Said the Same Thing He Was a Republican Hero
Posted March 16, 2008 | 04:23 PM (EST)
Read More: Barack Obama Jeremiah Wright, Francis Schaeffer, Jeremiah Wright, Obama Church, Obama Church Faith, Obama Faith, Obama Jeremiah Wright, Obama Pastor, Obama's Pastor, Breaking Politics News


Buzz up!

When Senator Obama's preacher thundered about racism and injustice Obama suffered smear-by-association. But when my late father -- Religious Right leader Francis Schaeffer -- denounced America and even called for the violent overthrow of the US government, he was invited to lunch with presidents Ford, Reagan and Bush, Sr.

Every Sunday thousands of right wing white preachers (following in my father's footsteps) rail against America's sins from tens of thousands of pulpits. They tell us that America is complicit in the "murder of the unborn," has become "Sodom" by coddling gays, and that our public schools are sinful places full of evolutionists and sex educators hell-bent on corrupting children. They say, as my dad often did, that we are, "under the judgment of God." They call America evil and warn of immanent destruction. By comparison Obama's minister's shouted "controversial" comments were mild. All he said was that God should damn America for our racism and violence and that no one had ever used the N-word about Hillary Clinton.

Dad and I were amongst the founders of the Religious right. In the 1970s and 1980s, while Dad and I crisscrossed America denouncing our nation's sins instead of getting in trouble we became darlings of the Republican Party. (This was while I was my father's sidekick before I dropped out of the evangelical movement altogether.) We were rewarded for our "stand" by people such as Congressman Jack Kemp, the Fords, Reagan and the Bush family. The top Republican leadership depended on preachers and agitators like us to energize their rank and file. No one called us un-American.

Consider a few passages from my father's immensely influential America-bashing book A Christian Manifesto. It sailed under the radar of the major media who, back when it was published in 1980, were not paying particular attention to best-selling religious books. Nevertheless it sold more than a million copies.

Here's Dad writing in his chapter on civil disobedience:

If there is a legitimate reason for the use of force [against the US government]... then at a certain point force is justifiable.


And this:

In the United States the materialistic, humanistic world view is being taught exclusively in most state schools... There is an obvious parallel between this and the situation in Russia [the USSR]. And we really must not be blind to the fact that indeed in the public schools in the United States all religious influence is as forcibly forbidden as in the Soviet Union....
Then this:

There does come a time when force, even physical force, is appropriate... A true Christian in Hitler's Germany and in the occupied countries should have defied the false and counterfeit state. This brings us to a current issue that is crucial for the future of the church in the United States, the issue of abortion... It is time we consciously realize that when any office commands what is contrary to God's law it abrogates it's authority. And our loyalty to the God who gave this law then requires that we make the appropriate response in that situation...
Was any conservative political leader associated with Dad running for cover? Far from it. Dad was a frequent guest of the Kemps, had lunch with the Fords, stayed in the White House as their guest, he met with Reagan, helped Dr. C. Everett Koop become Surgeon General. (I went on the 700 Club several times to generate support for Koop).

Dad became a hero to the evangelical community and a leading political instigator. When Dad died in 1984 everyone from Reagan to Kemp to Billy Graham lamented his passing publicly as the loss of a great American. Not one Republican leader was ever asked to denounce my dad or distanced himself from Dad's statements.

Take Dad's words and put them in the mouth of Obama's preacher (or in the mouth of any black American preacher) and people would be accusing that preacher of treason. Yet when we of the white Religious Right denounced America white conservative Americans and top political leaders, called our words "godly" and "prophetic" and a "call to repentance."

We Republican agitators of the mid 1970s to the late 1980s were genuinely anti-American in the same spirit that later Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson (both followers of my father) were anti-American when they said God had removed his blessing from America on 9/11, because America accepted gays. Falwell and Robertson recanted but we never did.

My dad's books denouncing America and comparing the USA to Hitler are still best sellers in the "respectable" evangelical community and he's still hailed as a prophet by many Republican leaders. When Mike Huckabee was recently asked by Katie Couric to name one book he'd take with him to a desert island, besides the Bible, he named Dad's Whatever Happened to the Human Race? a book where Dad also compared America to Hitler's Germany.

The hypocrisy of the right denouncing Obama, because of his minister's words, is staggering. They are the same people who argue for the right to "bear arms" as "insurance" to limit government power. They are the same people that (in the early 1980s roared and cheered when I called down damnation on America as "fallen away from God" at their national meetings where I was keynote speaker, including the annual meeting of the ultraconservative Southern Baptist convention, and the religious broadcasters that I addressed.

Today we have a marriage of convenience between the right wing fundamentalists who hate Obama, and the "progressive" Clintons who are playing the race card through their own smear machine. As Jane Smiley writes in the Huffington Post "[The Clinton's] are, indeed, now part of the 'vast right wing conspiracy.' (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-s...n_b_90628.html )

Both the far right Republicans and the stop-at-nothing Clintons are using the "scandal" of Obama's preacher to undermine the first black American candidate with a serious shot at the presidency. Funny thing is, the racist Clinton/Far Right smear machine proves that Obama's minister had a valid point. There is plenty to yell about these days.

Frank Schaeffer is a writer and author of "CRAZY FOR GOD-How I Grew Up As One Of The Elect, Helped Found The Religious Right, And Lived To Take All (Or Almost All) Of It Back
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:32 AM   #2
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Yep I read this story yesterday and considered posting it. This has been going on for 30 years yet no denouncing or rejecting from anyone on the right so I guess this means they believe the US is like Hitler.
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:39 AM   #3
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That's really good. It bothers me that this story is growing when it should be dying down. I can see it already turning into, "Obama must hate white people!" kind of stuff. Just like the, Obama is a Muslim stuff. Obama has done everything I would hope and expect him to in regards to this story.
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:45 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
Yep I read this story yesterday and considered posting it. This has been going on for 30 years yet no denouncing or rejecting from anyone on the right so I guess this means they believe the US is like Hitler.
Which one of those presidents spent 20 years in the pews of the Shcaeffer church? How many of the current Obama supporters have been outraged by conservative ministers who have talked like this only to grow silent now that their candidate has a 20 year, intimate relationship with one? If there is hypocrisy here, it lies on both sides of the partisan divide and it lies much more heavily on the Obamists, IMO.
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Old 03-17-2008, 11:00 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Which one of those presidents spent 20 years in the pews of the Shcaeffer church? How many of the current Obama supporters have been outraged by conservative ministers who have talked like this only to grow silent now that their candidate has a 20 year, intimate relationship with one? If there is hypocrisy here, it lies on both sides of the partisan divide and it lies much more heavily on the Obamists, IMO.
Francis Schaeffer is one of the leading and most influential theologians of this century. I've actually lived and studied at one of his L'Abri study centers. The guy was amazing.
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Old 03-17-2008, 11:03 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Which one of those presidents spent 20 years in the pews of the Shcaeffer church? How many of the current Obama supporters have been outraged by conservative ministers who have talked like this only to grow silent now that their candidate has a 20 year, intimate relationship with one? If there is hypocrisy here, it lies on both sides of the partisan divide and it lies much more heavily on the Obamists, IMO.
Didn't Obama say it was the early 90's (iirc 90 or 92) that he began attending this church? That's what I saw him say on FOX last week. That's less than 20 years. He did claim to have met the man earlier.
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Old 03-17-2008, 11:12 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by NewPhin View Post
Francis Schaeffer is one of the leading and most influential theologians of this century. I've actually lived and studied at one of his L'Abri study centers. The guy was amazing.
I'm an evangelical illiterate. I've never heard of him. I even copied your typo in the title because I didn't know any better until this post where you typed his name and I went back and checked the article.
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Old 03-17-2008, 12:25 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Which one of those presidents spent 20 years in the pews of the Shcaeffer church? How many of the current Obama supporters have been outraged by conservative ministers who have talked like this only to grow silent now that their candidate has a 20 year, intimate relationship with one? If there is hypocrisy here, it lies on both sides of the partisan divide and it lies much more heavily on the Obamists, IMO.
It appears all the right wing presidents did and they bought all his books and said how great he was. Damn even his own son even says this.

I am not outraged at all because I am not overly religious so I really don't care what any minister or preacher says because IMHO they are all pretty much hypocrites.
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:48 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
It appears all the right wing presidents did and they bought all his books and said how great he was. Damn even his own son even says this.

I am not outraged at all because I am not overly religious so I really don't care what any minister or preacher says because IMHO they are all pretty much hypocrites.
His son doesn't say anything of the sort.
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:54 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
His son doesn't say anything of the sort.
Really?

Quote:
We were rewarded for our "stand" by people such as Congressman Jack Kemp, the Fords, Reagan and the Bush family
Quote:
Dad was a frequent guest of the Kemps, had lunch with the Fords, stayed in the White House as their guest, he met with Reagan, helped Dr. C. Everett Koop become Surgeon General. (I went on the 700 Club several times to generate support for Koop).
Quote:
Dad became a hero to the evangelical community and a leading political instigator. When Dad died in 1984 everyone from Reagan to Kemp to Billy Graham lamented his passing publicly as the loss of a great American. Not one Republican leader was ever asked to denounce my dad or distanced himself from Dad's statements.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:02 PM   #11
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And that totally makes so much sense.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:44 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
Really?
Yeah, really. How does what you quote come anywhere close to being a 20 year member of the guy's church, choosing him to marry you, asking him to baptize your kids, naming your best-selling book after one of his sermons and dedicating it to him, and considering him family?
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:58 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Yeah, really. How does what you quote come anywhere close to being a 20 year member of the guy's church, choosing him to marry you, asking him to baptize your kids, naming your best-selling book after one of his sermons and dedicating it to him, and considering him family?
My point is pat that just because this guy spends time at their houses, stays in the White House, is acknowledged as a American hero doesn't mean that I think Reagan, the Bushes, or Jack Kemp think America is like Hitler. This guy's father had a 30-year personal relationship with the most influential conservatives in the country.

But you somehow equate having a personal relationship with someone automatically means that they have the exact same views.
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Old 03-17-2008, 04:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
How many of the current Obama supporters have been outraged by conservative ministers who have talked like this only to grow silent now that their candidate has a 20 year, intimate relationship with one? If there is hypocrisy here, it lies on both sides of the partisan divide and it lies much more heavily on the Obamists, IMO.
13. Oh, and why does it lie "much more heavily" on the OBamists?
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Old 03-17-2008, 04:22 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
My point is pat that just because this guy spends time at their houses, stays in the White House, is acknowledged as a American hero doesn't mean that I think Reagan, the Bushes, or Jack Kemp think America is like Hitler. This guy's father had a 30-year personal relationship with the most influential conservatives in the country.

But you somehow equate having a personal relationship with someone automatically means that they have the exact same views.
No, I think Obama is a duplicitous panderer who tells people what he thinks they want to hear. I think his church membership is first and foremost a political play to establish himself in his community and maintain his viability. Now, when his association with the church is becoming something of a double-edged sword, he's trying to find a way to distance himself from the controversy without being forced to disavow the church altogether because that would hurt him with the black demographic. IOW, he may or may not have believed in the church's separatist message (his wife sounds like she does though), but there's no reason for us to believe anything about his damage control measures now.

His personal relationship makes his damage control ring hollow.
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