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Old 03-17-2008, 08:42 AM  
jAZ jAZ is offline
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NewsMax "July 22" claim proven false... Bill Kristol quotes it in NY Times anyway...

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/...fact_in_an.php
Kristol Fails To Check His Sources, And So Bungles Key Fact In Anti-Obama Column
17 Mar 2008 07:11 am

Bill Kristol's New York Times column about Barack Obama this morning contains a major, prejudicial error.

Paragraph five:
But Ronald Kessler, a journalist who has written about Wright’s ministry, claims that Obama was in fact in the pews at Trinity last July 22. That’s when Wright blamed the “arrogance” of the “United States of White America” for much of the world’s suffering, especially the oppression of blacks. In any case, given the apparent frequency of such statements in Wright’s preaching and their centrality to his worldview, the pretense that over all these years Obama had no idea that Wright was saying such things is hard to sustain.
The error is in trusting the source without checking.
The truth is that Obama did not attend church on July 22.

He was on his way to campaign in Miami.

(Here is some video evidence.) This was before he signed an agreement forbidding himself from campaigning in Florida.

Here is the original, false, Newsmax story:
Obama Attended Hate America Sermon.

One of his correspondents allegedly attended a service last summer where Rev. Wright preached on the "United States of White America." Kessler writes that Obama "nodded" his head while Wright preached along these lines:
Addressing the Iraq war, Wright thundered, “Young African-American men” were “dying for nothing.” The “illegal war,” he shouted, was “based on Bush’s lies” and is being “fought for oil money.”
Now, a simple Google search suggests that Obama spent most of the day in Miami. But a simple e-mail or telephone call to Obama's campaign might have cleared things up.
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:03 AM   #2
banyon banyon is offline
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Wait, are you saying Denise was wrong and too eager to believe the story?

I am shocked. Shocked.
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:05 AM   #3
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Newsmax getting something wrong doesn't improve his wafer-thin defense that he was ignorant of his pastor's rantings for over 20 years.
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:05 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon View Post
Wait, are you saying Denise was wrong and too eager to believe the story?

I am shocked. Shocked.
She, patteeu and Bill Kristol.
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:24 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon View Post
Wait, are you saying Denise was wrong and too eager to believe the story?

I am shocked. Shocked.
Whether the newsmax story was wrong or not, I can't say. But I can defend memyselfi here. She specifically expressed reservation about relying on newsmax and taking their word as gospel.
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:30 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Whether the newsmax story was wrong or not, I can't say. But I can defend memyselfi here. She specifically expressed reservation about relying on newsmax and taking their word as gospel.
Strange times indeed. I would think you must have thrown up a little in your mouth just then.
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:34 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by jAZ View Post
She, patteeu and Bill Kristol.
As I pointed out to banyon, memyselfi wasn't wrong. Bill Kristol described the report accurately. And I'll rely on the probabilities being in my favor in terms of whether or not Obama has ever been nodding in the pews when his pastor made controversial statements. It's beyond belief that Obama remained unaware of his pastor's sentiments for 19 years. And btw, I'm not willing to accept that video evidence as proof that Obama didn't attend TUCC that morning. When someone tells me they have proof, I expect to see actual proof.

Did you see the way the entire congregation was getting into it when Wright was railing on the sins of America? Obama was surrounding himself with all of these people for all those years, not just Wright.
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:36 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon View Post
Strange times indeed. I would think you must have thrown up a little in your mouth just then.
I had to re-read it to make sure I understood his post the first time.
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:43 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
Newsmax getting something wrong doesn't improve his wafer-thin defense that he was ignorant of his pastor's rantings for over 20 years.
Well, Obama didn't say that either. He said he was no aware of the pastor making these rantings repeatedly at his church sermons.
Obama is a lawyer. I'm sure he chose his words carefully despite Kristol's and the right's spin. Kristol has more lies to him than Obama.
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:54 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Well, Obama didn't say that either. He said he was no aware of the pastor making these rantings repeatedly at his church sermons.
Obama is a lawyer. I'm sure he chose his words carefully despite Kristol's and the right's spin. Kristol has more lies to him than Obama.
In this Obama statement, he said the controversial statements first came to his attention when he started his campaign for POTUS. He didn't say anything about the frequency of these types of sermons. Since you've emphasized this "repeatedly" thing twice now, do you have a link?
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:55 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikesome View Post
I had to re-read it to make sure I understood his post the first time.
I've been waiting over 5 years to find something to defend her on.
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:01 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
In this Obama statement, he said the controversial statements first came to his attention when he started his campaign for POTUS. He didn't say anything about the frequency of these types of sermons. Since you've emphasized this "repeatedly" thing twice now, do you have a link?
No I don't. Since when is a link proof? As I stated before, which you conveniently forget, is that I personally witnessed what he said on FOX last week. That's better than a link. He used the word "repeatedly". It's way to common to paraphrase these things which don't say it the same to alter the meaning even slightly.
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
In this Obama statement, he said the controversial statements first came to his attention when he started his campaign for POTUS. He didn't say anything about the frequency of these types of sermons. Since you've emphasized this "repeatedly" thing twice now, do you have a link?
I know why you chose not to include the actual quote here... it makes you wide-net strategy harder to support, and you are more interested in trying to win a debate and take down a political opponent, than getting to the facts...

But here's the quote, for the record...

"...the statements that have been the subject of this controversy...".

This controversy that he was responding to was the repeated "God Damn America" statements.
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:07 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
No I don't. Since when is a link proof? As I stated before, which you conveniently forget, is that I personally witnessed what he said on FOX last week. That's better than a link. He used the word "repeatedly". It's way to common to paraphrase these things which don't say it the same to alter the meaning even slightly.
BEP, he's made multiple statements and as you'd expect, the wording is slightly different depending upon the interview. But the consistent thing about it is that he's responding to the "god damn america" controversy.
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:16 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
No I don't. Since when is a link proof? As I stated before, which you conveniently forget, is that I personally witnessed what he said on FOX last week. That's better than a link. He used the word "repeatedly". It's way to common to paraphrase these things which don't say it the same to alter the meaning even slightly.
But you expect others to constrain their comments on the basis of something you say you saw that isn't reflected in the Obama comment that was posted on this website? I don't think that's very reasonable, particularly with your history of seeing what you want to see at times.
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