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Old 04-16-2008, 11:44 AM  
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Sources: Hamas sends reps to meet with Carter

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/...mas/index.html

(CNN) -- Two senior Hamas leaders based in Gaza arrived in the Egyptian capital on Wednesday in hopes of meeting with former U.S. President Jimmy Carter, Hamas political sources told CNN.

Carter's delegation said no meeting has been confirmed, but talks with Hamas officials are "currently under discussion."

The Hamas sources said Mahmoud Zahar and Saeed Seyam left Gaza early Wednesday for Cairo to meet with Carter, who is currently in Israel and will be leaving for Egypt later in the day.

The 83-year-old former president said he has been denied permission to go into Gaza, although he added, "I would like to."

Carter is on the third day of a nine-day "study mission" to the Middle East, as part of his "ongoing effort to support peace, democracy, and human rights in the region," according to the Carter Center Web site.

During a visit to the West Bank on Tuesday, Carter placed a wreath at the Ramallah grave of former Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. He also said he hoped to meet with exiled Hamas leader Khalid Meshaal when he visits Damascus, Syria, in the coming days.

"I'm going to try everything I can to get him (Meshaal) to agree to peaceful resolution of differences both with the Israelis through Gaza and also with Fatah," Carter said.

Fatah, the party of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, is a rival to Hamas.

Carter stressed that he is "not a negotiator."

"I'm just trying to understand different opinions and communicate, provide communications between people that won't communicate with each other, so I think if he does have anything constructive to say, he or the president of Syria, Bashar Assad, then I would bring that to other people."

Carter has made waves both in Israel and the United States with his stated desire to meet with Meshaal. Last week, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said she found it "hard to understand what is going to be gained by having discussions with Hamas about peace when Hamas is in fact the impediment to peace."

Israeli leaders, including Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, turned down Carter's requests for meetings this week.

Carter, the man who helped broker the historic peace agreement between Egypt and Israel in the late 1970s, has angered many in Israel with a recent book in which he compared Israeli policies towards the Palestinians to those practiced under the apartheid South African governments.

Carter shrugged off the criticism from Rice, noting that he's "been meeting with Hamas leaders for years."

"It's very important that at least someone meet with Hamas leaders to express their views, to ascertain what flexibilities they have, to try to induce them to stop all attacks against innocent civilians in Israel, and to cooperate with Fatah as a group that unites the Palestinians -- maybe to get them to agree to a cease-fire," he said in an interview on ABC's "This Week."

Appearing on the same program, National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley said a meeting between Carter and Hamas leaders would send a mixed message to the group, which is considered a terrorist organization by the United States and Israel.

"We think it is very important for the international community, for everyone, to be sending a very clear message to Hamas about what they need to do if they want to move from terror into the political process," Hadley said.

"It really undermines President (Mahmoud) Abbas and the government of Prime Minister (Salam) Fayyad at a very critical time."

Carter denied that the State Department advised him against any plans to meet with Meshaal in Syria. He noted that his Syria itinerary is still unconfirmed but added: "It's likely that I will be meeting with the Hamas leaders" while in Damascus.

Last week, a Hamas official told CNN that Carter plans to meet with Meshaal in Syria's capital, where he lives in exile to avoid being arrested or killed by the Israelis.

During his trip, Carter said he "will be meeting with the Israelis, we'll be meeting with Fatah ... the Syrians, the Egyptians, the Jordanians, the Saudi Arabians and with the whole gamut of people who might have to play a crucial rule in any future peace agreement that involves the Middle East."
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Old 04-16-2008, 11:50 AM   #2
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And I can't help of thinking that 'Hamas' Jenkins, looking like Carl Weathers, is going to come running up to Carter with his finger pointed right in his face, screaming "NOW you've pissed me off!"
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Old 04-16-2008, 11:58 AM   #3
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Ed Koch, looking back at his life:

Quote:
...

I came to know Carter well.

When he ran for reelection, he asked me to campaign for him in 1980 - I was by then Mayor of New York City -- and I said that I would vote for him, but not campaign for him because he was then engaging in hostile acts towards Israel. I was popular with the Jewish community and when I would not campaign for him unless he changed his position, he called me to his hotel in New York when attending a fundraiser and said, "You have done me more damage than any man in America." I felt proud then, and even more today, since we now know what a miserable president he was then and the miserable human being he is now as he prepares to meet with Hamas.

...
by contrast, here's his take on GWB

Quote:
Now we come to the last president on this list, George W. Bush. I campaigned for his reelection and have no regrets. I believe that history will treat him more kindly than current public opinion polls indicate. He and Tony Blair recognized the danger of Islamic terrorism to the Western world when most world leaders did not. In addition, he is a very nice guy.
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Old 04-16-2008, 12:00 PM   #4
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Old 04-16-2008, 12:03 PM   #5
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Old 04-16-2008, 12:17 PM   #6
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Awesome. I suppose we'll begin to see fundraising drives for a new charity: Habitat for Hamas.
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Old 04-16-2008, 12:19 PM   #7
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If this shit ever ends, that ending is going to start with all us idiots talking to each other.
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Old 04-16-2008, 12:24 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
If this shit ever ends, that ending is going to start with all us idiots talking to each other.

Yeah, I don't get the hate for Carter over this. Apparently neither does Haaretz in Israel...



15/04/2008


Our debt to Jimmy Carter

By Haaretz Editorial


The government of Israel is boycotting Jimmy Carter, the 39th president of the United States, during his visit here this week. Ehud Olmert, who has not managed to achieve any peace agreement during his public life, and who even tried to undermine negotiations in the past, "could not find the time" to meet the American president who is a signatory to the peace agreement with Egypt. President Shimon Peres agreed to meet Carter, but made sure that he let it be known that he reprimanded his guest for wishing to meet with Khaled Meshal, as if the achievements of the Carter Center fall short of those of the Peres Center for Peace. Carter, who himself said he set out to achieve peace between Israel and Egypt from the day he assumed office, worked incessantly toward that goal and two years after becoming president succeeded - was declared persona non grata by Israel.

The boycott will not be remembered as a glorious moment in this government's history. Jimmy Carter has dedicated his life to humanitarian missions, to peace, to promoting democratic elections, and to better understanding between enemies throughout the world. Recently, he was involved in organizing the democratic elections in Nepal, following which a government will be set up that will include Maoist guerrillas who have laid down their arms. But Israelis have not liked him since he wrote the book "Palestine: Peace not Apartheid."

Israel is not ready for such comparisons, even though the situation begs it. It is doubtful whether it is possible to complain when an outside observer, especially a former U.S. president who is well versed in international affairs, sees in the system of separate roads for Jews and Arabs, the lack of freedom of movement, Israel's control over Palestinian lands and their confiscation, and especially the continued settlement activity, which contravenes all promises Israel made and signed, a matter that cannot be accepted. The interim political situation in the territories has crystallized into a kind of apartheid that has been ongoing for 40 years. In Europe there is talk of the establishment of a binational state in order to overcome this anomaly. In the peace agreement with Egypt, 30 years ago, Israel agreed to "full autonomy" for the occupied territories, not to settle there.
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These promises have been forgotten by Israel, but Carter remembers.

Whether Carter's approach to conflict resolution is considered by the Israeli government as appropriate or defeatist, no one can take away from the former U.S. president his international standing, nor the fact that he brought Israel and Egypt to a signed peace that has since held. Carter's method, which says that it is necessary to talk with every one, has still not proven to be any less successful than the method that calls for boycotts and air strikes. In terms of results, at the end of the day, Carter beats out any of those who ostracize him. For the peace agreement with Egypt, he deserves the respect reserved for royalty for the rest of his life.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/974893.html
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Old 04-16-2008, 12:32 PM   #9
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They are equating Egypt with a terrorist organization?

Lovely.

When even the Chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee condemns the meeting, I would think it would give Carter pause.
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Old 04-16-2008, 12:34 PM   #10
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B*sh wants to bring democracy to the middle east so that when a political party like Hamas wins a majority vote in a parliamentary election, the folks who support B*sh all of the time, no matter what, can piss and moan about an ex-president acknowledging their existence.

If there is not an ongoing war with the intent on fighting to the finish, why shouldn't there be some kind of diplomatic outreach to the political party that gets the most support in a democratic election in a crucial part of the middle east?
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Old 04-16-2008, 12:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
If this shit ever ends, that ending is going to start with all us idiots talking to each other.
Exactly, wouldn't be ironic if Carter was the one to negotiate a Middle East Peace Agreement. I give him credit for at least talking to them. He should invite the leaders of Iran to talk as well.

But with monkey boy and his handler meddling peace is not happening, nor would it under Bush III (McCain).
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Old 04-16-2008, 12:47 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by jettio View Post
B*sh wants to bring democracy to the middle east so that when a political party like Hamas wins a majority vote in a parliamentary election, the folks who support B*sh all of the time, no matter what, can piss and moan about an ex-president acknowledging their existence.

If there is not an ongoing war with the intent on fighting to the finish, why shouldn't there be some kind of diplomatic outreach to the political party that gets the most support in a democratic election in a crucial part of the middle east?
That was already tried once. Google Chamberlin/Hitler. Although one slight difference then was Germany hadn't openly called for the destruction of the Jews at that point.
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Old 04-16-2008, 12:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jettio View Post
B*sh wants to bring democracy to the middle east so that when a political party like Hamas wins a majority vote in a parliamentary election, the folks who support B*sh all of the time, no matter what, can piss and moan about an ex-president acknowledging their existence.

If there is not an ongoing war with the intent on fighting to the finish, why shouldn't there be some kind of diplomatic outreach to the political party that gets the most support in a democratic election in a crucial part of the middle east?
Did anyone else hear John Lennon singing in their head while reading this?

"All we are saaaaayyyyingggg, is give pppppeeeeeaaaacccceee a chance!"
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Old 04-16-2008, 01:06 PM   #14
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Exactly, wouldn't be ironic if Carter was the one to negotiate a Middle East Peace Agreement. I give him credit for at least talking to them. He should invite the leaders of Iran to talk as well.

But with monkey boy and his handler meddling peace is not happening, nor would it under Bush III (McCain).
Looks like it wouldn't happen under Bush IV (Barack Hussein) either...

"That's why I have a fundamental difference with President Carter and disagree with his decision to meet with Hamas," Obama said. "We must not negotiate with a terrorist group intent on Israel's destruction. We should only sit down with Hamas if they renounce terrorism, recognize Israel's right to exist and abide by past agreements."

"Hamas is not a state. Hamas is a terrorist organization," he said.
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Old 04-16-2008, 01:16 PM   #15
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Looks like it wouldn't happen under Bush IV (Barack Hussein) either...

"That's why I have a fundamental difference with President Carter and disagree with his decision to meet with Hamas," Obama said. "We must not negotiate with a terrorist group intent on Israel's destruction. We should only sit down with Hamas if they renounce terrorism, recognize Israel's right to exist and abide by past agreements."

"Hamas is not a state. Hamas is a terrorist organization," he said.
wow.. I guess there is something I agree with Obama on..
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