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Old 04-22-2008, 09:31 AM  
Cave Johnson Cave Johnson is online now
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SC Church Begging for IRS Investigation

JONESVILLE, S.C. -- The sign in front of a small church in a small town is causing a big controversy in Jonesville, S.C.

Pastor Roger Byrd said that he just wanted to get people thinking. So last Thursday, he put a new message on the sign at the Jonesville Church of God.

It reads: "Obama, Osama, hmm, are they brothers?"

Byrd said that the message wasn't meant to be racial or political.

"It's simply to cause people to realize and to see what possibly could happen if we were to get someone in there that does not believe in Jesus Christ," he said.

When asked if he believes that Barack Obama is Muslim, Byrd said, "I don't know. See it asks a question: Are they brothers? In other words, is he Muslim ? I don't know. He says he's not. I hope he's not. But I don't know. And it's just something to try to stir people's minds. It was never intended to hurt feelings or to offend anybody."

Obama has said repeatedly during his campaign that he is a Christian and attends Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago.

Despite some criticism, Byrd says that the message will stay on the sign. He took the issue before his congregation Sunday night, and they decided unanimously to keep it.

Byrd also said he doesn't want it to look like controversy forced him to take the sign down.

http://www.wyff4.com/news/15948849/detail.html
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Old 04-22-2008, 09:32 AM   #2
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Old 04-22-2008, 09:38 AM   #3
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And this is why I think they should be taxed in some way. Most likely property tax.

Where else is there a free pulpit to voters? Where else is disinformation running rampant? Okay, don't answer the second one. The mainstream media fits it.
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Old 04-22-2008, 09:40 AM   #4
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Wow I didn't realize Hog Farmer was also a pastor.

Does he let the pigs roam about the church pews?
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Old 04-22-2008, 09:41 AM   #5
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Closing that tax loophole, please.
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Old 04-22-2008, 10:44 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishjayhawk View Post
And this is why I think they should be taxed in some way. Most likely property tax.

Where else is there a free pulpit to voters? Where else is disinformation running rampant? Okay, don't answer the second one. The mainstream media fits it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jAZ View Post
Closing that tax loophole, please.
What's the theory behind this plan to punish churches?

Edit: Maybe jAZ means just this one church, in which case I can easily understand the plan. But it looks like irish is saying we should be taxing all churches (unless he's commented on this particular church in the past). I don't see how that would have an impact on this kind of thing at all.
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Old 04-22-2008, 10:51 AM   #7
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In fairness to them, pretty much everyone in South Carolina is related.
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Old 04-22-2008, 10:55 AM   #8
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Old 04-22-2008, 12:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishjayhawk View Post
And this is why I think they should be taxed in some way. Most likely property tax.

Where else is there a free pulpit to voters? Where else is disinformation running rampant? Okay, don't answer the second one. The mainstream media fits it.


The Supreme Court respects the first amendment, even if you don't.

That said, this pastor and church are not too smart. They clearly enjoy the right to freedom of religious practices, but the court has also made it clear political activity by such churches.....can jeopardize their tax-exempt status. They are not being too smart about this....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jAZ View Post
Closing that tax loophole, please.
Same goes for churches openly pimping Obama from their pulpits too, then????

Otherwise, you'd be a hypocrite.....
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Old 04-22-2008, 12:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post


The Supreme Court respects the first amendment, even if you don't.
Actually, this has nothing to do with first amendment rights and everything to do with taxing. Everyone else gets taxed. Churches exploit the "not for profit" even when the people running it are profiting. And it's essentially a lobbyist group, and I believe lobbyist groups that have premises get taxed too.

But don't let that get in the way.

Quote:
That said, this pastor and church are not too smart. They clearly enjoy the right to freedom of religious practices, but the court has also made it clear political activity by such churches.....can jeopardize their tax-exempt status. They are not being too smart about this....
My point.


Quote:
Same goes for churches openly pimping Obama from their pulpits too, then????

Otherwise, you'd be a hypocrite.....
I've said nothing to the contrary yet you're heavily assuming I have or would.
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Old 04-22-2008, 12:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
What's the theory behind this plan to punish churches?
Well, if you taxed a lot of churches for property tax or something similar, you'd make a shitload of cash. Think about how many there are. One on like every street corner. That's a lot of property tax. And the mega churches....

The plan would be to help alleviate national debt? Better education? Who knows what the money can be used for.....

[/quote]
Edit: Maybe jAZ means just this one church, in which case I can easily understand the plan. But it looks like irish is saying we should be taxing all churches (unless he's commented on this particular church in the past). I don't see how that would have an impact on this kind of thing at all.[/quote]

I'm not saying tax churches solely because of it. I'm saying this is one reason. As highlighted in my other post.
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Old 04-22-2008, 12:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishjayhawk View Post
Actually, this has nothing to do with first amendment rights and everything to do with taxing. Everyone else gets taxed. Churches exploit the "not for profit" even when the people running it are profiting. And it's essentially a lobbyist group, and I believe lobbyist groups that have premises get taxed too.
The immunity of churches from taxation derives directly from the First Amendment. As Justice Marshall originally said "The power to tax is the power to destroy." This is a right we have respected for quite some time now. So long as they aren't overtly involved in political campaigning (as this church is), then there's no reason to tax all of them.
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Old 04-22-2008, 12:37 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by banyon View Post
The immunity of churches from taxation derives directly from the First Amendment. As Justice Marshall originally said "The power to tax is the power to destroy." This is a right we have respected for quite some time now. So long as they aren't overtly involved in political campaigning (as this church is), then there's no reason to tax all of them.
I don't believe taxing has anything to do with the first amendment. Just as long as you tax everything.
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Old 04-22-2008, 12:45 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by irishjayhawk View Post
Actually, this has nothing to do with first amendment rights and everything to do with taxing. Everyone else gets taxed.
Nope it has everything to do with First amendment rights...it's passing a law pertaining to an establishment of religion. They raise their funds for social betterment and to fund their own internal causes.

Quote:
Churches exploit the "not for profit" even when the people running it are profiting.
They are not profiting in the usual sense of how the word is used.

Quote:
And it's essentially a lobbyist group, and I believe lobbyist groups that have premises get taxed too.
No more than any individual or other groups. IMO I think this law on talking politics in the pulpit infringes on the First Amendment too. I think it should only be if they do politics only. Life is not compartmentalized. Every group, including the AIPAC ( both an ethnic, and quasi religious cause) lobbies our govt. Why not our own churches? If laws get passed that affect their values they have a right to participate.
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Old 04-22-2008, 12:48 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Nope it has everything to do with First amendment rights...it's passing a law pertaining to an establishment of religion. They raise their funds for social betterment and to fund their own internal causes.
Okay. So businesses can be exempt. They strive for social betterment through their products and fund their own internal causes.


Quote:
They are not profiting in the usual sense of how the word is used.
When the man behind it all (priest) is making a living and affording trips, vacations etc etc, I consider it profiting.


Quote:
No more than any individual or other groups. In I think this law on talking politics in the pulpit infringes on the First Amendment. I think it should only be if they do politics only. Every group, including the AIPAC ( both an ethnic, and quasi religious cause) lobbies our govt. Why not our own churches? If laws get passed that affect their values they have a right to participate.
It in no way infringes on the freedom of religion. The government isn't taxing ONE religion it's taxing ALL. Universal taxation. I don't see how that's infringing on one belief they have or making it impossible to carry out those beliefs.

It does mean the members will have to fork over more money to cover the taxes, but that's not infringing on their right to believe.
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