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Old 05-11-2008, 11:49 AM  
smittysbar smittysbar is offline
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Okay, here is a place for the Golfers to talk about tournaments, clubs, swing help or thoughts.

Today is the Players Championship, which I think ought to be the 5th Major. Largest pot in the PGA. The daunting 17th, which seems to bring excitement every year. At least we will get to see Sergio blow up yet again.

I am ready to see some water balls!
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Old 06-16-2013, 06:53 PM   #3676
TribalElder TribalElder is offline
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That putter he plays is funky. Heel mounted. He sucks with it also. Time to upgrade
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Being the resident Tacoman, I feel obligated to point out that TribalElder knows what's up.
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Old 06-16-2013, 06:59 PM   #3677
GloryDayz GloryDayz is offline
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Originally Posted by TribalElder View Post
That putter he plays is funky. Heel mounted. He sucks with it also. Time to upgrade
He's prolly saving his allowance for one now that you've mentioned it.
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:06 PM   #3678
O.city O.city is offline
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Yup.

He has a fatal flaw in his putting stroke and it always shows up in majors.

People forget that after he laced that 6-iron from the pine straw at Augusta he missed a four footer straight up the hill, a hole cut in a location he had played, literally, about 20 years in a row.

You can putt effectively with three strokes. A swinging gate stroke where the putter opens way up on the backswing then closes to square at impact. A stroke with a slight arc, and a stroke that is straight back and straight through.

Phil actually starts the putter outside the line, then cuts across the putt. His margin of error is a fraction of other putters, because his path is closed to the target line, which means that his face has to be marginally open to offset that. It's too hard to control in pressure situations. The forward press exacerbates problems by making his putter loft inconsistent and driving the ball into the ground rather than using the putter's effective loft to get it out of the small depression and then on line.

Tiger's stroke was always square to the path of his stroke, which allowed him to focus on pace, and if he got that down he was either making everything or burning edges on 15+ foot putts.
Phils hands are so great, that they actually get him into trouble in pressure situations. In those times, you can't rely on your hands.

Thats why Tiger was so great of a putter for so long, he had a pretty simple stroke.
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:08 PM   #3679
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Originally Posted by TribalElder View Post
That putter he plays is funky. Heel mounted. He sucks with it also. Time to upgrade
He would be more consistent on short putts if he'd move to a SBST stroke and use a center-shafted putter.
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:11 PM   #3680
O.city O.city is offline
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
He would be more consistent on short putts if he'd move to a SBST stroke and use a center-shafted putter.
Or get away from Pelz. I hate his short game stuff.


More of a Stan Utley guy myself.
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:14 PM   #3681
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Originally Posted by O.city View Post
Phils hands are so great, that they actually get him into trouble in pressure situations. In those times, you can't rely on your hands.

Thats why Tiger was so great of a putter for so long, he had a pretty simple stroke.
Hey man, you're preaching to the choir. Those small muscles will always fail you in golf.

He relies on his hands with his full swing too. He gets way too step on the downswing and has to save every shot with his hands. When he gets tired he hangs back and blows it left.

Something else to note is that Butch Harmon has fixed nothing about his swing. He's still too long and too steep. His hips open up too much because he straightens his trail leg. That's why he can't hit his wedges consistent distances.

His hands are so good that when he catches it right he flags shots, but his margin of error is almost nil.
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:17 PM   #3682
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Originally Posted by O.city View Post
Or get away from Pelz. I hate his short game stuff.


More of a Stan Utley guy myself.
He doesn't use a ton of Pelz' stuff. The forward press is a Dave Stockton thing.

He uses the hinge and hold on some shots around the green, but not as much as he actually preaches. The thing I hate about Pelz is the "18 inches" bullshit. If Phil would have died putts at the hole, like Rose did, he makes another three putts today.
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:17 PM   #3683
O.city O.city is offline
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Hey man, you're preaching to the choir. Those small muscles will always fail you in golf.

He relies on his hands with his full swing too. He gets way too step on the downswing and has to save every shot with his hands. When he gets tired he hangs back and blows it left.

Something else to note is that Butch Harmon has fixed nothing about his swing. He's still too long and too steep. His hips open up too much because he straightens his trail leg. That's why he can't hit his wedges consistent distances.

His hands are so good that when he catches it right he flags shots, but his margin of error is almost nil.
Nope. For all the shit they spewed about shortening him up and getting him to hit a cut blah blah blah they've done nothing with it.

He doesn't have any athleticism in his swing. At all. If he would just keep some flex in his left knee on the way back, things would get alot better IMO.
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:20 PM   #3684
GloryDayz GloryDayz is offline
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I hope Phil keeps doing what he's doing, worrying about kids first and golf after that. I'm sure that 2nd place finish will be more than anybody on this board makes in a few years, so he got to be with his kid on her Bday, and made a King's ransom after that. **** any trophy his kid didn't make...

He's grown up, that's awesome!
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:21 PM   #3685
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Celebrity golf instructors are pretty much charlatans. Their success is directly tied to their ability to market themselves. Leadbetter, McLean, Haney, Harmon, Foley...all bullshitters.
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:23 PM   #3686
O.city O.city is offline
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
He doesn't use a ton of Pelz' stuff. The forward press is a Dave Stockton thing.

He uses the hinge and hold on some shots around the green, but not as much as he actually preaches. The thing I hate about Pelz is the "18 inches" bullshit. If Phil would have died putts at the hole, like Rose did, he makes another three putts today.
I think you have to have your hands ahead to putt consistently, but the press is too much.

I think Phil gets into his own head to much, technically.

The best putters are usually feel guys and have no idea technique wise what they really do.
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:24 PM   #3687
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Celebrity golf instructors are pretty much charlatans. Their success is directly tied to their ability to market themselves. Leadbetter, McLean, Haney, Harmon, Foley...all bullshitters.
Of all those guys, I actually think Harmon and specifically Foley are really good. I've been reading alot of Foleys stuff lately, while I think it's a bit too technical at times, it's pretty good stuff.

Leadbetter Haney and McLean are one in the same to me, in that they are pretty generic.
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:27 PM   #3688
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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I think that all of those guys, save Haney, who is completely clueless, know little more about the swing than hundreds of other teachers around the country. It's not that they are vapid, but I don't see what separates them from the masses.
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:29 PM   #3689
O.city O.city is offline
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
I think that all of those guys, save Haney, who is completely clueless, know little more about the swing than hundreds of other teachers around the country. It's not that they are vapid, but I don't see what separates them from the masses.
Marketability. Well, that and money.


Most of the best swing guys are the ones you never hear about.
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Old 06-16-2013, 08:36 PM   #3690
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No body took the bull by the horns so it wasn't a very compelling Open. I think it's a product of players being pussyfied . ie Hitting hybrids over 1 irons.
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