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Old 05-11-2008, 11:49 AM  
smittysbar smittysbar is offline
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Okay, here is a place for the Golfers to talk about tournaments, clubs, swing help or thoughts.

Today is the Players Championship, which I think ought to be the 5th Major. Largest pot in the PGA. The daunting 17th, which seems to bring excitement every year. At least we will get to see Sergio blow up yet again.

I am ready to see some water balls!
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Old 04-12-2014, 06:41 PM   #4276
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Originally Posted by O.city View Post
Probably so.

When you look at the guys with the most longevity (playing great in their 40s) for te most part, they don't have a lot of moving parts in their swing.
I don't know. Most of the guys who have played well as they have aged have had an upright swing (Vijay, Nicklaus, Phil, Kenny Perry, Tom Watson). Bubba has that, but he also has the worst balance of any tour-level player ever. Phil's balance is comparatively really bad for a tour pro too, but his short game is so good that he's always been able to get away with it. Vijay didn't have great balance either, but he hit 10000 balls a day.

Where Bubba will get in trouble is his putting. He's among the best on the tour in longer putting because that is a much more feel-driven stroke, but he's one of the worst players from 5-15 feet because he doesn't have enough time to square the face. He's also a pretty mediocre iron player if you look at his GIR %s based on distance.

He's definitely unique. He probably has one of the five best sets of hands ever, so maybe he can stave that decline off longer than most.
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Old 04-12-2014, 06:46 PM   #4277
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
The list of major winners in their 40s is slim anyway.
It doesn't just mean winning majors. There were a lot of good players into their 40s who didn't win majors, but still played at a high level.
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Old 04-12-2014, 06:48 PM   #4278
O.city O.city is offline
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
I don't know. Most of the guys who have played well as they have aged have had an upright swing (Vijay, Nicklaus, Phil, Kenny Perry, Tom Watson). Bubba has that, but he also has the worst balance of any tour-level player ever. Phil's balance is comparatively really bad for a tour pro too, but his short game is so good that he's always been able to get away with it. Vijay didn't have great balance either, but he hit 10000 balls a day.

Where Bubba will get in trouble is his putting. He's among the best on the tour in longer putting because that is a much more feel-driven stroke, but he's one of the worst players from 5-15 feet because he doesn't have enough time to square the face. He's also a pretty mediocre iron player if you look at his GIR %s based on distance.

He's definitely unique. He probably has one of the five best sets of hands ever, so maybe he can stave that decline off longer than most.
It basically boils down to timing and how it's accomplished. Bubba can be off at times, but his hands are so great he can save himself. He basically survives with distance. He's not a great iron player, ball striker, putter (he's obviously not bad, he's a damn major winning tour pro) in terms of others on tour.

I don't think upright vs flat will bother longevity as much as other things. Usually the upright guys are better iron players and can struggle with driver, but he's unique in that regard.

I'm taller so I'm more partial to upright swings tho so there is that
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Old 04-12-2014, 06:50 PM   #4279
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
It doesn't just mean winning majors. There were a lot of good players into their 40s who didn't win majors, but still played at a high level.
For me, the whole "he's a great player because he won a major" argument is a lot like the qb an Super Bowl wins thing.
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Old 04-12-2014, 06:57 PM   #4280
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Originally Posted by O.city View Post
For me, the whole "he's a great player because he won a major" argument is a lot like the qb an Super Bowl wins thing.
I don't see the comparison because in golf you rely solely upon yourself. If all QBs had identical teams and then took the field in the SB it would be much closer.

There is a lot of variance and luck involved in majors. Someone like Greg Norman got legit hosed out of 3-4 majors, while Ernie Els was outright handed two of his four majors. They aren't a perfect metric for measuring a golfer's ability, but they're still the best one available.

If you are discerning in your evaluation, it's easy to see why someone like Sergio Garcia or Lee Westwood is a far better golfer than Shaun Micheel or Todd Hamilton even though they haven't won majors.

A fair analysis requires a number of data points.

Rich Beem plays out of his mind for a week and wins a major.
Fred Couples battles through years of injury, wins a major, and several other tour titles.
Angel Cabrera shows up once every other year and competes in the US Open or at Augusta and ends up winning two
Westwood grinds around Europe for years, wins a ton of tournaments, contends in a lot of majors, yet routinely shits his pants.

If I'm ranking them as golfers I go:

Couples
Westwood
Cabrera
Beem
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Old 04-12-2014, 07:04 PM   #4281
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You do rely on yourself, but like you said, that's not the only factor in winning vs losing.

Same as matchups in football, course selection or the course being played plays a factor and some guys (like beem or the Asian that beat tiger at the PGA who's name eludes me) can get hot and win.

My assumption basically stops there. I don't think winning a major, by itself as a measuring point, is a good way to go.
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Old 04-12-2014, 09:21 PM   #4282
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After Scott, Watson is probably the second best golfer in the world right now. The top is as weak as I've ever seen it, maybe 1995 or so right before Tiger arrived. This leader board is really weak. If McIlroy doesn't revert to his prior form then you'll be seeing some serious no names (Shaun Micheel style) eke these future majors out.
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Old 04-12-2014, 11:35 PM   #4283
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Three of the players tied or within a shot of the lead are in the top 13 in the world, so I don't quite get the weak leaderboard talk (Spieth is also going to end up being a consistent top 5 player in his career in all likelihood). I've certainly seen worse.

There's just a changing of the guard going in at the top of golf right now. The guys from the Tiger era are declining (even though he himself remains #1 for now) while younger guys are overtaking them (Scott, Day, McIlroy, D. Johnson, Spieth, etc.).
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Old 04-12-2014, 11:39 PM   #4284
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Wow. Woodland was seven under through 10, then bogeyed 11 and doubled 12.
I've always thought this course would be good for Woodland's game. Just needs to hit his putts and keep his nerve. He's in tough this week after that back 9, but maybe he can post a great score and hope.
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Old 04-12-2014, 11:47 PM   #4285
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Old 04-12-2014, 11:52 PM   #4286
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Originally Posted by KC_Connection View Post
Three of the players tied or within a shot of the lead are in the top 13 in the world, so I don't quite get the weak leaderboard talk (Spieth is also going to end up being a consistent top 5 player in his career in all likelihood). I've certainly seen worse.

There's just a changing of the guard going in at the top of golf right now. The guys from the Tiger era are declining (even though he himself remains #1 for now) while younger guys are overtaking them (Scott, Day, McIlroy, D. Johnson, Spieth, etc.).
The Masters will always have a "strong" leaderboard given that it's by far the smallest major of the year, and many of the players teeing it up are ceremonial--amateurs or aged past champions. That doesn't mean that it has a strong leaderboard compared to its normal leaderboards.

That's what people are bemoaning.
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Old 04-13-2014, 12:00 AM   #4287
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
The Masters will always have a "strong" leaderboard given that it's by far the smallest major of the year, and many of the players teeing it up are ceremonial--amateurs or aged past champions. That doesn't mean that it has a strong leaderboard compared to its normal leaderboards.

That's what people are bemoaning.
Compared to normal Masters leaderboards, maybe. Although that's mostly because Tiger and Phil are at or near the top 5 in most years. You do often see worse than this in the other majors.
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Old 04-13-2014, 12:07 AM   #4288
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Originally Posted by KC_Connection View Post
Compared to normal Masters leaderboards, maybe. Although that's mostly because Tiger and Phil are at or near the top 5 in most years. You do often see worse than this in the other majors.
Of course, because the fields are 156, not 90. A larger field opens up the possibilities for a rando getting hot.
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Old 04-13-2014, 08:43 AM   #4289
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In 1963, Jack Nicklaus became the youngest Masters winner.

17 years later, Seve broke the record.

17 years after that, Tiger broke the record.

17 years after Tiger?

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Old 04-13-2014, 08:48 AM   #4290
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jordan speith...get used to his name. In the past year he's been paired up with some great golfers...he beat woods by 9, rory by 11, and beat Scott by 6 strokes. He appears to be some kind of undertaker.
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