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Old 09-12-2008, 10:04 AM  
jAZ jAZ is offline
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Sullivan: "In some ways, Obama has been a shadow president for a while"

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...9/a-first.html
Obama Leads In Foreign Policy, Bush Follows
12 Sep 2008 09:42 am

In some ways, Obama has been a shadow president for a while. Even JPod now concedes that Obama has been right about the terror war:
I was among many people who ridiculed the Obama proposal at the time, on the grounds that a) no nation violates the territorial integrity of an ally, even if that ally is problematic, and b) Obama’s bellicosity seemed entirely unbelievable, given that he spoke in the wake of his remarks about meeting with the leaders of the world’s worst regimes “without preconditions.” On the latter point, he was and remains wrong and foolish.

On the former point, though, he was, apparently, precognitive, and may be due an apology.
Ya think? Radley Balko adds:
Will McCain now condemn the Bush administration's decision to go into Pakistan? Or was this idea only naive ten months ago? Was it only naive because it came from Obama? The Obama campaign should be making a much bigger deal about this.
Yes, they should. On one of the most critical decisions of the war, Obama staked out a position a while back that the Bush camp and neocons assailed as naive, disastrous, and revealing of his unfitness to be president. But like almost everything else Obama has said about the war, he was right and Bush was wrong. Obama was ahead of Bush in proposing to shift troops to Afghanistan, ahead of Bush in suggesting a timetable for Iraq withdrawal (subsequently embraced by Maliki), ahead of Bush in arguing we should talk directly to Iran, and, of course, right about not fighting the war in the first place.

The Bush administration - when guided by the saner forces within it such as Gates and Rice - eventually follows Obama's advice. In that sense, Obama has been president for quite a while already. And proving he could be a shrewd, pragmatic and prescient one.
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Old 09-12-2008, 10:05 AM   #2
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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I hear that Putin, the entire middle east and all of south America have been getting the right direction from Obama but Canada is holding out.
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Old 09-12-2008, 10:06 AM   #3
L.A. Chieffan L.A. Chieffan is offline
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Obamas paper thin. This guy isn't fit to run my local Weinerschnitzel.

Oh wait, he's Muslim that would be so fuuuuuuny!
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Old 09-12-2008, 10:23 AM   #4
Alphaman Alphaman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.A.Chieffan View Post
Obamas paper thin. This guy isn't fit to run my local Weinerschnitzel.

Oh wait, he's Muslim that would be so fuuuuuuny!
The issue is preparedness. Obama has been proving over and over he is prepared and has keen judgement.
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Old 09-12-2008, 10:33 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphaman View Post
The issue is preparedness. Obama has been proving over and over he is prepared and has keen judgement.
So you agree with him that we should pull out troops from Iraq regardless of whether or not it leads to victory? You agree that we should slow development of new weapons systems? You agree that we should stop development of new missile defense systems? You agree that we should raise taxes even if it reduces revenue?

That's keen judgment in your mind?
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Old 09-12-2008, 10:53 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by RINGLEADER View Post
So you agree with him that we should pull out troops from Iraq regardless of whether or not it leads to victory? You agree that we should slow development of new weapons systems? You agree that we should stop development of new missile defense systems? You agree that we should raise taxes even if it reduces revenue?

That's keen judgment in your mind?

What I'm saying is what the article said. On several occasions Obama has made statements about what we should only to have McCain, Bush and other Republicans ridicule him and call him naive. Yet, months later we find Bush doing EXACTLY what Obama said. So yes I see that as keen judgement. It also lends him credibility to his other ideas.

The questions you've asked are good ones, but lack the totality of his thoughts. For example, his statement regarding withdrawing troops from Iraq is to withdraw responsibly (i.e. in a fashion that best protects American interests). Again with perpetuating the lie that Obama is going to unilaterally raise taxes. He's proposed LOWERING taxes on 95% of Americans. In a time when middle income and low income Americans are hurting, yes I see that as keen judgement, especially when compared to the FAILED philosophy of trickle down economics.
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:12 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RINGLEADER View Post
...whether or not it leads to victory...
I'd ask you to define victory, but not even General Petraeus is so partisan as to fall in line with the McCain "victory" talking point.
In an interview with the BBC, Petraeus said he didn't know if he could promise "victory," said he didn't know if he would ever even use that word, and suggested that using it is irresponsible. Here's the key exchange:
Q: Do you think you will ever use the word "victory"?

Petraeus: I don't know that I will. I think that all of us at different times have recognized the need for real restraint in our assessments, in our pronouncements, if you will. And we have tried to be very brutally honest and forthright in what we have provided to Congress, to the press, and to ourselves.
A bit later, Petraeus elaborated:
"This is not the sort of struggle where you take a hill, plant the flag and go home to a victory parade...it's not war with a simple slogan."
This seems a bit at odds with McCain's frequent assertion that our goal should be for our troops to come home with "victory" and "honor." What's more, the McCain forces have directly faulted Obama for refusing to use the word "victory." [...]

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Old 09-12-2008, 11:14 AM   #8
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphaman View Post
The issue is preparedness. Obama has been proving over and over he is prepared and has keen judgement.
Judgement...Biden? Wright? Ayers?
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:15 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphaman View Post
The questions you've asked are good ones, but lack the totality of his thoughts.
You know how Donger has his schtick? Just FYI, the above was RINGLEADER's schtick in 2004. He's been better since his return so far, but the post you just quoted is protypical RINGLEADER.

Just my bit of public service for the day.
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:29 AM   #10
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:30 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Judgement...Biden?
An extremely capable vice president?

Quote:
Wright?
A well-liked preacher who had a couple of incendiary sermons that were dredged up years later?

Quote:
Ayers?
Some guy who lives in the same city as him?
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:33 AM   #12
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I'm gonna vote for Obama, but Sullivan really has gone off the deep-end.....

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Old 09-12-2008, 11:35 AM   #13
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So it appears that Obamamania is changing the tune of those who would otherwise be denouncing Bush's "unprecedented violation of sovereignty and dangerous disrepect of fellow nations."


Thanks Barry.
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:35 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post


I'm gonna vote for Obama, but Sullivan really has gone off the deep-end.....

Figuratively ≠ Literally
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:36 AM   #15
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Figuratively ≠ Literally
Makes no difference in this case.
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