Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge > D.C.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-24-2008, 05:32 PM  
jidar jidar is offline
MVP
 
jidar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: a
Casino cash: $25256
2/3 of US Population lives in constitution free zone

Thanks GWB for the DHS. The best way to keep Terrorists from taking our freedoms is to take em first so when they get here they will hopefully just go back home.


http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...free-zone.html

ACLU: 2/3 of US population lives in "Constitution-free" zone

By Jon Stokes | Published: October 23, 2008 - 09:45PM CT
Related Stories

Longtime Ars readers know that I've had my own problems in the "Constitution-free zone" that exists in US airports, but an aggressive new ACLU campaign highlights a fact of which I was previously unaware: the Constitution-free zone that exists a US borders and airports actually extends 100 air miles inland and encompasses two-thirds of the country's population. The US Border Patrol can set up checkpoints anywhere in this region and question citizens.

The Fourth Amendment to the Constitution contains a border-related exception to unreasonable search and seizure laws, permitting searches at border checkpoints that wouldn't be permitted elsewhere. But federal statute 8 CFR 287.1 (a)(1-3) defines the border zone for enforcement purposes as encompassing an area within 100 miles of the actual border, with the possibility of extending it further under certain circumstances. This means that the US Border Patrol could conceivably set up random checkpoints asking travelers for a passport in places like Columbus, Ohio; Houston; or anywhere in the state of Florida. And, in fact, it appears that it has been doing exactly this.

The ACLU's map of the border zone
Papers, please

In 2003, the Seattle Times reported on random "spot checks" of cars and luggage that border patrol agents were performing on US citizens who were taking the ferry between Washington State and the San Juan islands. Because most of the passengers on these ferries had not actually crossed an international border, the ACLU advised them at the time not to answer any questions asked of them by federal agents.

In the intervening years, the ACLU has been collecting other reports of such inland "border" checkpoints, and has built its new "Constitution-Free Zone" campaign around them. Unfortunately for the ACLU, few of the folks who have been subject to search at such checkpoints have actually come forward with complaints, but the ones who did speak up have compelling and troubling stories.

Take the story of Vince Peppard from San Diego, who crossed the border to buy tiles at a discount store in Mexico. Upon crossing back into the US, he was subject to the usual check at the border, but on driving further inland he was stopped a second checkpoint, where agents asked to search his car.

Peppard, a member of the ACLU, refused the search, at which point he was questioned repeatedly, and eventually escorted from his car while the agents searched it. Segments of Peppard's account of the incident, which the ACLU has posted in video form on their site, would almost be funny if the issue weren't so serious.

"He starts looking at the passport and the driver's license," says Peppard, "and he goes to my wife, 'Where were you born?' because she has an accent, but she's a US citizen. And so she says, 'I was born in Syria,' and he goes, 'Ah! A Syrian!' like he'd hit the jackpot or something."

Peppard then goes a little overboard in expressing worry that he may be stopped and asked for his passport at Home Depot or in other random locations, but he finishes off the clip with a concern that may not be so far-fetched. Specifically, Peppard worries that, because he has talked to the ACLU and has filed a complaint with the Border Patrol, he may be singled out for further harassment at border checkpoints.

Ultimately, one wonders just how far the Feds will push this internal checkpoint idea in a non-emergency situation; given the likely reaction to citizens being asked to show papers on a mass scale, it seems unlikely that the government will truly install checkpoints north of Columbus and begin screening in large numbers. But vigilance, as the saying goes, is the price of freedom, which is why the ACLU and its allies intend to challenge the practice before we have a chance to find out.

Posts: 5,502
jidar is not part of the Right 53.jidar is not part of the Right 53.jidar is not part of the Right 53.jidar is not part of the Right 53.jidar is not part of the Right 53.jidar is not part of the Right 53.jidar is not part of the Right 53.jidar is not part of the Right 53.jidar is not part of the Right 53.jidar is not part of the Right 53.jidar is not part of the Right 53.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 07:22 PM   #2
underEJ underEJ is offline
Starter
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Casino cash: $39283
This is further supported by other government departments that have checkpoints. In my own experience driving back into California from Arizona or Nevada, the ag/fruit/medfly checkpoints have been visited by DHS and now they don't ask if you have any produce in your car, wait for a reply, and then either request you surrender your produce, or thank you and send you on like they have for 20 years. Now, on occasion (2 of 4 trips I've made in the last 2 years.) the first thing is "Pop your trunk!" No question, no mention of ag or fruit or medfly quarantine, just a demand to search.

The first time, it was 4:45 when I got there. I asked if the search was required. She replied yes. I asked if she was a law enforcement officer. She didn't answer. I asked what gave her the authority to search my vehicle. She asked for my ID. I asked what california law required me to show ID upon entering from another state. She told me to pull over and an officer would be there shortly. I did. He arrived. He said DHS had asked for cooperation. I asked again what law required me to submit to more than an agricultural questioning. He didn't answer, just said wait five minutes, the checkpoint will unman at end of day, then drive through.

Stupid people were just submitting to these illegal searches the whole time I was there.
Posts: 661
underEJ must have mowed badgirl's lawn.underEJ must have mowed badgirl's lawn.underEJ must have mowed badgirl's lawn.underEJ must have mowed badgirl's lawn.underEJ must have mowed badgirl's lawn.underEJ must have mowed badgirl's lawn.underEJ must have mowed badgirl's lawn.underEJ must have mowed badgirl's lawn.underEJ must have mowed badgirl's lawn.underEJ must have mowed badgirl's lawn.underEJ must have mowed badgirl's lawn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 07:27 PM   #3
Mecca Mecca is offline
Hockey Town
 
Mecca's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Casino cash: $120810
So does this mean we are getting close to living in a police state?
Posts: 80,194
Mecca has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.Mecca has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.Mecca has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.Mecca has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.Mecca has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.Mecca has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.Mecca has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.Mecca has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.Mecca has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.Mecca has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.Mecca has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2008, 07:05 AM   #4
StcChief StcChief is offline
Playing for #1 Draft Pick
 
StcChief's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Just West of Lambs land
Casino cash: $1024715
well are you doing something wrong? don't worry about it.
Posts: 25,902
StcChief is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutStcChief is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutStcChief is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutStcChief is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutStcChief is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutStcChief is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutStcChief is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutStcChief is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutStcChief is the dumbass Milkman is always talking about
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2008, 07:31 AM   #5
BigMeatballDave BigMeatballDave is offline
That's a spicy meatball!
 
BigMeatballDave's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: My Kenworth
Casino cash: $6316
Well, I suppose we could terminate the US Border Patrol, and just open our borders...
Posts: 50,364
BigMeatballDave has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.BigMeatballDave has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.BigMeatballDave has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.BigMeatballDave has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.BigMeatballDave has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.BigMeatballDave has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.BigMeatballDave has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.BigMeatballDave has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.BigMeatballDave has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.BigMeatballDave has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.BigMeatballDave has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2008, 09:02 AM   #6
***SPRAYER ***SPRAYER is offline
Banned
 

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Autosodomy NJ
Casino cash: $14414
Posts: 9,582
***SPRAYER is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.***SPRAYER is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2008, 09:10 AM   #7
Chiefnj2 Chiefnj2 is offline
MVP
 
Chiefnj2's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2007
Casino cash: $58652
Quote:
Originally Posted by StcChief View Post
well are you doing something wrong? don't worry about it.
I love that copout. I suppose you don't mind registering all of your guns and advising the government of all guns and ammunition so they have it on record. I mean, as long as you don't do anything wrong you have nothing to worry about.
__________________
Seahawks 2012 & Forever. No more waiting on a QB.
Posts: 17,333
Chiefnj2 wants to die in a aids tree fire.Chiefnj2 wants to die in a aids tree fire.Chiefnj2 wants to die in a aids tree fire.Chiefnj2 wants to die in a aids tree fire.Chiefnj2 wants to die in a aids tree fire.Chiefnj2 wants to die in a aids tree fire.Chiefnj2 wants to die in a aids tree fire.Chiefnj2 wants to die in a aids tree fire.Chiefnj2 wants to die in a aids tree fire.Chiefnj2 wants to die in a aids tree fire.Chiefnj2 wants to die in a aids tree fire.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2008, 11:03 AM   #8
jidar jidar is offline
MVP
 
jidar's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2005
Location: a
Casino cash: $25256
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigChiefDave View Post
Well, I suppose we could terminate the US Border Patrol, and just open our borders...
How about we guard the boarders and not state lines?
Posts: 5,502
jidar is not part of the Right 53.jidar is not part of the Right 53.jidar is not part of the Right 53.jidar is not part of the Right 53.jidar is not part of the Right 53.jidar is not part of the Right 53.jidar is not part of the Right 53.jidar is not part of the Right 53.jidar is not part of the Right 53.jidar is not part of the Right 53.jidar is not part of the Right 53.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2008, 11:10 AM   #9
StcChief StcChief is offline
Playing for #1 Draft Pick
 
StcChief's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Just West of Lambs land
Casino cash: $1024715
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 View Post
I love that copout. I suppose you don't mind registering all of your guns and advising the government of all guns and ammunition so they have it on record. I mean, as long as you don't do anything wrong you have nothing to worry about.
since I buy guns from legit sources complete with background checks ... I have no problem.
Gun Dealer have to have records for ATF as needed... what the big deal?
Posts: 25,902
StcChief is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutStcChief is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutStcChief is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutStcChief is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutStcChief is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutStcChief is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutStcChief is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutStcChief is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutStcChief is the dumbass Milkman is always talking about
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2014, 12:42 PM   #10
planetdoc planetdoc is offline
Veteran
 

Join Date: Apr 2012
Casino cash: $25264
Federal Court: The Police Can Stop and Search You for Behaving Innocently
by Larry Bodine

Quote:
Originally Posted by article
A federal appeals court just ruled that the police have a legal right to stop, search and arrest you for innocent behavior including driving with your hands at the ten-and-two position on the steering wheel at 7:45 p.m., taking a scenic route and having acne.

To the Tenth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, these factors added up to fit the profile of a person smuggling undocumented immigrants and drugs. The court said, "Although the factors, in isolation, may be consistent with innocent travel ... taken together they may amount to reasonable suspicion."

In other words, the police can now stop you for no reason at all. The federal court's rubber-stamping of this over-the-top law enforcement aggression sets a bad precedent for law-abiding citizens. We no longer have a free country if the innocent behavior of ordinary people can be recolored with nefarious purposes and used to stop, search and arrest us.
link to pdf of court decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by court judges
In the border patrol context different facts may become relevant in developing reasonable suspicion than in other law enforcement circumstances
thus, anyone living near a border essentially loses their right to unreasonable searches and seizures from a border patrol officer.
Posts: 1,989
planetdoc has disabled reputation
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2014, 01:03 PM   #11
FishingRod FishingRod is offline
Veteran
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Casino cash: $47448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 View Post
I love that copout. I suppose you don't mind registering all of your guns and advising the government of all guns and ammunition so they have it on record. I mean, as long as you don't do anything wrong you have nothing to worry about.
Well most people agree the child molesters are the lowest of the low perhaps all people in contact with children like teachers and parents should be required to take lie detector tests to prove their innocence. While we're at it perhaps all children should be interviewed and examined periodically. I mean if you have nothing to hide what's the problem?
Posts: 3,145
FishingRod Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.FishingRod Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.FishingRod Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.FishingRod Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.FishingRod Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.FishingRod Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.FishingRod Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.FishingRod Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.FishingRod Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.FishingRod Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.FishingRod Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2014, 01:13 PM   #12
planetdoc planetdoc is offline
Veteran
 

Join Date: Apr 2012
Casino cash: $25264
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishingRod View Post
While we're at it perhaps all children should be interviewed and examined periodically.
some schools do drug test EVERY child
Posts: 1,989
planetdoc has disabled reputation
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2014, 02:13 PM   #13
Cochise Cochise is offline
MVP
 
Cochise's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Florida
Casino cash: $79954195
What is with the thread necromancy?
Posts: 41,061
Cochise is too fat/Omaha.Cochise is too fat/Omaha.Cochise is too fat/Omaha.Cochise is too fat/Omaha.Cochise is too fat/Omaha.Cochise is too fat/Omaha.Cochise is too fat/Omaha.Cochise is too fat/Omaha.Cochise is too fat/Omaha.Cochise is too fat/Omaha.Cochise is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2014, 02:19 PM   #14
planetdoc planetdoc is offline
Veteran
 

Join Date: Apr 2012
Casino cash: $25264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
What is with the thread necromancy?
before posting material I always search to see if there is a previous thread that is relevant. If there is, I post within that thread.

my link in this thread is in regards to a recent court case that allows border patrol to violate citizens 4th ammendment constitutional rights.
Posts: 1,989
planetdoc has disabled reputation
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2014, 03:54 PM   #15
FishingRod FishingRod is offline
Veteran
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Casino cash: $47448
Quote:
Originally Posted by planetdoc View Post
some schools do drug test EVERY child
Yes they do. And people once upon a time had to prove they weren't a witch. There is supposed to be a presumption of innocence in this country . Operating in the opposite manner is an open invitation for abuse for those in a position of authority.
Posts: 3,145
FishingRod Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.FishingRod Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.FishingRod Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.FishingRod Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.FishingRod Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.FishingRod Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.FishingRod Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.FishingRod Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.FishingRod Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.FishingRod Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.FishingRod Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.