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Old 10-27-2008, 11:49 PM  
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Palin, "the new Ronald Reagan?"

Aides to George W.Bush, former Reagan White House staff and friends of John McCain have all told The Sunday Telegraph that they not only expect to lose on November 4, but also believe that Mr Obama is poised to win a crushing mandate.

They believe he will be powerful enough to remake the American political landscape with even more ease than Ronald Reagan did in 1980.

The prospect of an electoral rout has unleashed a bitter bout of recriminations both within the McCain campaign and the wider conservative movement, over who is to blame and what should be done to salvage the party's future.

Mr McCain is now facing calls for him to sacrifice his own dwindling White House hopes and focus on saving vulnerable Republican Senate seats which are up for grabs on the same day.

Their fear is that Democrat candidates riding on Mr Obama's popularity may win the nine extra seats they need in the Senate to give them unfettered power in Congress.

If the Democrat majority in the Senate is big enough - at least 60 seats to 40 - the Republicans will be unable to block legislation by use of a traditional filibuster - talking until legislation runs out of time. No president has had the support of such a majority since Jimmy Carter won the 1976 election. President Reagan achieved his political transformation partly through the power of his personality.

David Frum, a former Bush speechwriter, told The Sunday Telegraph that Republicans should now concentrate all their fire on "the need for balanced government".

"It's hard to see a turnaround in the White House race," he said. "This could look like an ideological as well as a party victory if we're not careful. It could be 1980 in reverse.

"With this huge new role for federal government in the economy, the possibility for mischief making is very, very great. One man should not have a monopoly of political and financial power. That's very dangerous."

In North Carolina, where Senator Elizabeth Dole seems set to loose, Republicans are running adverts that appear to take an Obama victory for granted, warning that the Democrat will have a "blank cheque" if her rival Kay Hagen wins. "These liberals want complete control of government in a time of crisis," the narrator says. "All branches of Government. No checks and balances."

Democrats lead in eight of the 12 competitive Senate races and need just nine gains to reach their target of 60. Even Mitch McConnell, the leader of Senate Republicans, is at risk in Kentucky, normally a rock solid red state.

A private memo on the likely result of the congressional elections, leaked to Politico, has the Republicans losing 37 seats.

Ed Rollins, who masterminded Ronald Reagan's second victory in 1984, said the election is already over and predicted: "This is going to turn into a landslide."

A former White House official who still advises President Bush told The Sunday Telegraph: "McCain hasn't won independents, nor has he inspired the base. It's the worst of all worlds. He is dragging everyone else down with him. He needs to deploy people and money to salvage what we can in Congress."

The prospect of defeat has unleashed what insiders describe as an "every man for himself" culture within the McCain campaign, with aides in a "circular firing squad" as blame is assigned.

More profoundly, it sparked the first salvoes in a Republican civil war with echoes of Tory infighting during their years in the political wilderness.

One wing believes the party has to emulate David Cameron, by adapting the issues to fight on and the positions they hold, while the other believes that a back to basics approach will reconnect with heartland voters and ensure success. Modernisers fear that would leave Republicans marginalised, like the Tories were during the Iain Duncan Smith years, condemning them to opposition for a decade.

Mr Frum argues that just as America is changing, so the Republican Party must adapt its economic message and find more to say about healthcare and the environment if it is to survive.

He said: "I don't know that there's a lot of realism in the Republican Party. We have an economic message that is largely irrelevant to most people.

"Cutting personal tax rates is not the answer to everything. The Bush years were largely prosperous but while national income was up the numbers for most individuals were not. Republicans find that a hard fact to process."

Other Republicans have jumped ship completely. Ken Adelman, a Pentagon adviser on the Iraq war, Matthew Dowd, who was Mr Bush's chief re-election strategist, and Scott McClellan, Mr Bush's former press secretary, have all endorsed Mr Obama.

But the real bile has been saved for those conservatives who have balked at the selection of Sarah Palin.

In addition to Mr Frum, who thinks her not ready to be president, Peggy Noonan, Ronald Reagan's greatest speechwriter and a columnist with the Wall Street Journal, condemned Mr McCain's running mate as a "symptom and expression of a new vulgarisation of American politics." Conservative columnist David Brooks called her a "fatal cancer to the Republican Party".

The backlash that ensued last week revealed the fault lines of the coming civil war.

Rush Limbaugh, the doyen of right wing talk radio hosts, denounced Noonan, Brooks and Frum. Neconservative writer Charles Krauthammer condemned "the rush of wet-fingered conservatives leaping to Barack Obama", while fellow columnist Tony Blankley said that instead of collaborating in heralding Mr Obama's arrival they should be fighting "in a struggle to the political death for the soul of the country".

During the primaries the Democratic Party was bitterly divided between Barack Obama's "latte liberals" and Hillary Clinton's heartland supporters, but now the same cultural division threatens to tear the Republican Party apart.

Jim Nuzzo, a White House aide to the first President Bush, dismissed Mrs Palin's critics as "cocktail party conservatives" who "give aid and comfort to the enemy".

He told The Sunday Telegraph: "There's going to be a bloodbath. A lot of people are going to be excommunicated. David Brooks and David Frum and Peggy Noonan are dead people in the Republican Party. The litmus test will be: where did you stand on Palin?"

Mr Frum thinks that Mrs Palin's brand of cultural conservatism appeals only to a dwindling number of voters.

He said: "She emerges from this election as the probable frontrunner for the 2012 nomination. Her supporters vastly outnumber her critics. But it will be extremely difficult for her to win the presidency."

Mr Nuzzo, who believes this election is not a re-run of the 1980 Reagan revolution but of 1976, when an ageing Gerald Ford lost a close contest and then ceded the leadership of the Republican Party to Mr Reagan.

He said: "Win or lose, there is a ready made conservative candidate waiting in the wings. Sarah Palin is not the new Iain Duncan Smith, she is the new Ronald Reagan." On the accuracy of that judgment, perhaps, rests the future of the Republican Party.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...the-party.html
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:33 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcfanintitanhell View Post
Have you tried out this passage with your line of work?
How's that working out for you?
I have. Have you?
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:33 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Sully View Post
By the way, I like that quote of Jesus...it's great.
How does that fit into being in a war where innocents are killed? Do you just overlook it at that point?
Don't do that.

Religious nut jobs really hate it when you ask them to READ the new testament.

Y'know - issues like Jesus seemed (to me at least) to be much more concerned about the poor and downtrodden in his day / society than if said person was homosexual.

"This is my commandment - love one another, as I have loved you."
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:33 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by KCJohnny View Post
You won't be laughing then, my friend.

"As you have done it to the least of these my brothers, you've done it unto me".

Have you ever killed anyone?
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:34 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Jenson71 View Post
Most Democrats are Christian.
Please. You are using the boadest possible definition of Christian. Britney Spears and Madoona are Christian by that definition. That's Bin Laden's definition of Christian.
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:35 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by tomahawk kid View Post
Don't do that.

Religious nut jobs really hate it when you ask them to READ the new testament.

Y'know - issues like Jesus seemed (to me at least) to be much more concerned about the poor and downtrodden in his day / society than if said person was homosexual.

"This is my commandment - love one another, as I have loved you."
Thanks for posting that - no need to answer your theologically malinformed position. You did it for us.
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:36 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Have you ever killed anyone?
If I did, I wouldn't post it on ChiefsPlanet.


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Old 10-28-2008, 09:36 AM   #67
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So, KCJ, did you read the article?
Or are you going to ignore that it was posted?
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:36 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by KCJohnny View Post
Thanks for posting that - no need to answer your theologically malinformed position. You did it for us.
Why?

Because I believe that Jesus was about peace and love and acceptance of others?
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:37 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by KCJohnny View Post
I've already addressed and defeated that lamesmenship. You cound not be more wrong.

Hell is serious. Please don't goof off about it.
That might be the biggest load of "two wrongs make a right" bullshit I've ever read.

You haven't defeated anything.

Even IF Iraqis are 4X as likely to be killed by their own government, does that justify the murder of innocents there that has come at the hands of the US military?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCJohnny
The actual count of Iraqi noncombatant civilians killed by Coalition Forces is inconsequential.
Wow. Just wow.
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:37 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by KCJohnny View Post
Please. You are using the boadest possible definition of Christian. Britney Spears and Madoona are Christian by that definition. That's Bin Laden's definition of Christian.
Does this make them synonymous with atheist, which was the challenge?
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:38 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by KCJohnny View Post
Please. You are using the boadest possible definition of Christian.

Now you're the judge of what constitutes Christian and what doesn't?

You're a strange dude.
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:43 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by KCJohnny View Post
I have. Have you?
How tall are you?
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:54 AM   #73
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KCJohnny, with all due respect, you come very close to having your religion defined for you by the Republican party. That's not a Catholic view. One can be a Democrat and a Catholic, in good standing, with the Church. To believe the Republican party has the monopoly over Christianity is a relatively new, politically Protestant Evangelical belief that Catholics should resist. A political party does not define religious beliefs. Though they can agree, for instance Catholic teaching on abortion and the more accepted Republican position on the issue. Unfortunately, since Vatican II, many American Catholics have had little identity of their own, and have either gravitated towards either a liberal, careless view of Christianity or a politically Evangelical view. In both cases, the Church is shunned and neglected, viewed as neither sacred nor entirely important; perhaps good for some sound bites, but not much else.

I have seen how Evangelical Christianity has crept its way into Catholicism every time I talk to my fellow Catholics who are basically grabbing on to anything that can find that presents itself as being "more Christian." I have met many Catholics that are interested in their faith who shun the word religion, are afraid of reason and logic, praise praise bands, feel embarrassed by the Church for a number of reasons, view Mass as a social gathering, believe Billy Graham would have made the best Pope, believe there should not be a Pope, believe Jerry Falwell was better than any Pope, believe Pat Robertson to be Christ's Vicar on Earth.

Do not tell me the Republican party is the only party for Catholics. I emphatically disagree with such an unholy, disrespectful position.
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:57 AM   #74
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I can't imagine anything Christ cares less about than which political party you most identified with.
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:03 AM   #75
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Republicans often have short memories and view the past in a rosier light than it truly was. How else can you explain the nomination of George W. Bush in 2000 after his father failed so miserably as President on domestic issues? I have no doubt that there will be a large groundswell to nominate Palin in 2012 if she chooses to run. Does she have a chance? Even Dan Quayle thought that he had a chance.

When your party's biggest hope is know nothing Palin or say anything Romney then you are in trouble. The Republicans better hope that someone new pops up.
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