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Old 10-27-2008, 11:49 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Palin, "the new Ronald Reagan?"

Aides to George W.Bush, former Reagan White House staff and friends of John McCain have all told The Sunday Telegraph that they not only expect to lose on November 4, but also believe that Mr Obama is poised to win a crushing mandate.

They believe he will be powerful enough to remake the American political landscape with even more ease than Ronald Reagan did in 1980.

The prospect of an electoral rout has unleashed a bitter bout of recriminations both within the McCain campaign and the wider conservative movement, over who is to blame and what should be done to salvage the party's future.

Mr McCain is now facing calls for him to sacrifice his own dwindling White House hopes and focus on saving vulnerable Republican Senate seats which are up for grabs on the same day.

Their fear is that Democrat candidates riding on Mr Obama's popularity may win the nine extra seats they need in the Senate to give them unfettered power in Congress.

If the Democrat majority in the Senate is big enough - at least 60 seats to 40 - the Republicans will be unable to block legislation by use of a traditional filibuster - talking until legislation runs out of time. No president has had the support of such a majority since Jimmy Carter won the 1976 election. President Reagan achieved his political transformation partly through the power of his personality.

David Frum, a former Bush speechwriter, told The Sunday Telegraph that Republicans should now concentrate all their fire on "the need for balanced government".

"It's hard to see a turnaround in the White House race," he said. "This could look like an ideological as well as a party victory if we're not careful. It could be 1980 in reverse.

"With this huge new role for federal government in the economy, the possibility for mischief making is very, very great. One man should not have a monopoly of political and financial power. That's very dangerous."

In North Carolina, where Senator Elizabeth Dole seems set to loose, Republicans are running adverts that appear to take an Obama victory for granted, warning that the Democrat will have a "blank cheque" if her rival Kay Hagen wins. "These liberals want complete control of government in a time of crisis," the narrator says. "All branches of Government. No checks and balances."

Democrats lead in eight of the 12 competitive Senate races and need just nine gains to reach their target of 60. Even Mitch McConnell, the leader of Senate Republicans, is at risk in Kentucky, normally a rock solid red state.

A private memo on the likely result of the congressional elections, leaked to Politico, has the Republicans losing 37 seats.

Ed Rollins, who masterminded Ronald Reagan's second victory in 1984, said the election is already over and predicted: "This is going to turn into a landslide."

A former White House official who still advises President Bush told The Sunday Telegraph: "McCain hasn't won independents, nor has he inspired the base. It's the worst of all worlds. He is dragging everyone else down with him. He needs to deploy people and money to salvage what we can in Congress."

The prospect of defeat has unleashed what insiders describe as an "every man for himself" culture within the McCain campaign, with aides in a "circular firing squad" as blame is assigned.

More profoundly, it sparked the first salvoes in a Republican civil war with echoes of Tory infighting during their years in the political wilderness.

One wing believes the party has to emulate David Cameron, by adapting the issues to fight on and the positions they hold, while the other believes that a back to basics approach will reconnect with heartland voters and ensure success. Modernisers fear that would leave Republicans marginalised, like the Tories were during the Iain Duncan Smith years, condemning them to opposition for a decade.

Mr Frum argues that just as America is changing, so the Republican Party must adapt its economic message and find more to say about healthcare and the environment if it is to survive.

He said: "I don't know that there's a lot of realism in the Republican Party. We have an economic message that is largely irrelevant to most people.

"Cutting personal tax rates is not the answer to everything. The Bush years were largely prosperous but while national income was up the numbers for most individuals were not. Republicans find that a hard fact to process."

Other Republicans have jumped ship completely. Ken Adelman, a Pentagon adviser on the Iraq war, Matthew Dowd, who was Mr Bush's chief re-election strategist, and Scott McClellan, Mr Bush's former press secretary, have all endorsed Mr Obama.

But the real bile has been saved for those conservatives who have balked at the selection of Sarah Palin.

In addition to Mr Frum, who thinks her not ready to be president, Peggy Noonan, Ronald Reagan's greatest speechwriter and a columnist with the Wall Street Journal, condemned Mr McCain's running mate as a "symptom and expression of a new vulgarisation of American politics." Conservative columnist David Brooks called her a "fatal cancer to the Republican Party".

The backlash that ensued last week revealed the fault lines of the coming civil war.

Rush Limbaugh, the doyen of right wing talk radio hosts, denounced Noonan, Brooks and Frum. Neconservative writer Charles Krauthammer condemned "the rush of wet-fingered conservatives leaping to Barack Obama", while fellow columnist Tony Blankley said that instead of collaborating in heralding Mr Obama's arrival they should be fighting "in a struggle to the political death for the soul of the country".

During the primaries the Democratic Party was bitterly divided between Barack Obama's "latte liberals" and Hillary Clinton's heartland supporters, but now the same cultural division threatens to tear the Republican Party apart.

Jim Nuzzo, a White House aide to the first President Bush, dismissed Mrs Palin's critics as "cocktail party conservatives" who "give aid and comfort to the enemy".

He told The Sunday Telegraph: "There's going to be a bloodbath. A lot of people are going to be excommunicated. David Brooks and David Frum and Peggy Noonan are dead people in the Republican Party. The litmus test will be: where did you stand on Palin?"

Mr Frum thinks that Mrs Palin's brand of cultural conservatism appeals only to a dwindling number of voters.

He said: "She emerges from this election as the probable frontrunner for the 2012 nomination. Her supporters vastly outnumber her critics. But it will be extremely difficult for her to win the presidency."

Mr Nuzzo, who believes this election is not a re-run of the 1980 Reagan revolution but of 1976, when an ageing Gerald Ford lost a close contest and then ceded the leadership of the Republican Party to Mr Reagan.

He said: "Win or lose, there is a ready made conservative candidate waiting in the wings. Sarah Palin is not the new Iain Duncan Smith, she is the new Ronald Reagan." On the accuracy of that judgment, perhaps, rests the future of the Republican Party.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...the-party.html
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:07 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Sully View Post
So, KCJ, did you read the article?
Or are you going to ignore that it was posted?
You're wasting your breath. He's going to ignore anything that he thinks can prove him wrong.
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:07 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by penchief View Post
You're wasting your breath. He's going to ignore anything that he thinks can prove him wrong.
This.
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:48 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by ROYC75 View Post
You sound as though you are a liberal democrat....... just say'n.

There is a very large religious conservative base out there. But the ever growing atheist is growing at an alarming rate that one day will dominate the elections. We are seeing the beginning of this now ...

We are about to give the dems full control of the " BIG GOVERNMENT " they so desire to have for at least the next 4 - 16 years.

I can only say , God Help us all !
I can only hope you're right.

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Originally Posted by Jenson71 View Post
Do you really believe atheism is growing at an alarming rate? And do you have the statistics to back that claim up? (Much less hold hostage our country.)
It's pretty naive to think it's not growing, especially world wide.

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Originally Posted by Jenson71 View Post
Saying that atheism is growing at an alarming rate is not an opinion though. 'When you were a child, you thought like a child,' and lived a child's' sheltered life, not exposed to many ideas outside of your home and immediate community - like the neighborhood and school.
Atheism is most certainly on the rise. Are you disagreeing with that or the "alarming rate" part?

Quote:
You act as if Democrat is synonymous with atheist and the Republican party the defender of Jesus and all that is good and true.

I think it's PR and marketing. That's an opinion.
While you certainly have a point, it's interesting to note that a lot of atheists lean left. I'd say a majority of them do. Likewise, many of religious faith, especially Christian, lean right.

I always found that correlation interesting because typically the left is for the poor and the right is for the rich. If both are true, it's interesting that atheists are closer to Jesus' teachings than Christians. Of course, that's all based on generalizations.
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:01 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by whoman69 View Post
Republicans often have short memories and view the past in a rosier light than it truly was. How else can you explain the nomination of George W. Bush in 2000 after his father failed so miserably as President on domestic issues?
Pssst! He raised taxes. After his famous "read my lips" promise.
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:11 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Pssst! He raised taxes. After his famous "read my lips" promise.
That was part of it, and all that was forgotten by 2000. It was no accident that Clinton's mantra for that election was "Its the economy stupid." Bush's inability to even realize the nation was in recession was the biggest factor in his defeat. That's why he only got 37% of the vote.
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:15 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by whoman69 View Post
That was part of it, and all that was forgotten by 2000. It was no accident that Clinton's mantra for that election was "Its the economy stupid." Bush's inability to even realize the nation was in recession was the biggest factor in his defeat. That's why he only got 37% of the vote.
The main reason why Bush lost was Ross Perot, and the second was "No new taxes".

The media tells us people want bipartisanship, but history would be quite different if Bush hadn't compromised with the Democrats on taxes. He was a mediocre president, but he still would have won the election without that sound byte, and there never would have been a Clinton administration.
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:18 AM   #82
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:37 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by irishjayhawk View Post
It's pretty naive to think it's not growing, especially world wide.

Atheism is most certainly on the rise. Are you disagreeing with that or the "alarming rate" part?
I think it's certainly becoming more accepted, regular, and prominent. I think strict atheism though is not growing in terms of numbers. I know it seems unlikely, but only about 10% or less in America are atheists. What is growing is "non-religious"


Quote:
While you certainly have a point, it's interesting to note that a lot of atheists lean left. I'd say a majority of them do. Likewise, many of religious faith, especially Christian, lean right.

I always found that correlation interesting because typically the left is for the poor and the right is for the rich. If both are true, it's interesting that atheists are closer to Jesus' teachings than Christians. Of course, that's all based on generalizations.
I think in America a lot of that is probably cultural backlash.
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:41 AM   #84
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how insulting to Ronald Reagan ... and i'm not even a big Reagan fan.
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:57 PM   #85
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Atleast 80% of this country is christian, politicians have to act overly religious to get elected and I'm reading Roy acting as though atheists are takin over...

This goes back to something I said before, for having such an overwhelming majority you sure do have a persecution complex.
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:45 PM   #86
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
You're just being a partisan here. That's in the view of most Americans.
Iran Contra was pulled off by the NCs. Besides, no govt funds were used either.
There's something like this in many presidencies too. Just because we don't hear it them all doesn't mean anything.
You are completely full of shit.

What was the $100 million dollars of supplemental funds that Reagan repeatedly asked for and got from Congress to fight the Sandanistas with, then?
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:46 PM   #87
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Originally Posted by triple View Post
The main reason why Bush lost was Ross Perot, and the second was "No new taxes".

The media tells us people want bipartisanship, but history would be quite different if Bush hadn't compromised with the Democrats on taxes. He was a mediocre president, but he still would have won the election without that sound byte, and there never would have been a Clinton administration.
That's complete horseshit.

Exit polls demonstrably showed that Perot split the vote between Clinton and Bush. Clinton still wins in a landslide.
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:49 PM   #88
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That article has lots of words but I do know one thing for sure...

Palin looked pretty darned good in some of them fancy clothes she was wearing the other day. Dang girl, keep going on the treadmill.
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Old 10-28-2008, 02:22 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
You have to understand the TV culture of the 80's to fully appreciate the Reagan presidency. That was when television was peaking in influence. The fact is, the man looked great on TV and could deliver a speech. Regardless of what crazy stuff was going on in the world, Reagan could look into that camera and deliver a shot of confidence to the American people. People will love Obama for the same reasons, regardless of what he does otherwise. So long as the president can look into the camera and convince us that everything is alright, and look good doing it, it can turn into a self fulfilling prophecy.
Jim Jones looked good to a lot of desperate people too.

Be careful of what he is putting in the kool aide.
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Old 10-28-2008, 02:29 PM   #90
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No, and I don't think that's a fair comparison for Quayle or Palin. She's more like Bush. She's charismatic and she can get the 'beer' vote. She also has strong religious conservative credentials and does well in front of the camera. Palin will play well with much of the base, but the more intellectual republicans and Wall St. will only accept her as a last choice. Just look how many big name republicans have endorsed Obama - it has a lot to do with the Palin choice.
, there won't be wall street republicans in 4 years.
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