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Old 10-28-2008, 12:49 AM  
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Palin, "the new Ronald Reagan?"

Aides to George W.Bush, former Reagan White House staff and friends of John McCain have all told The Sunday Telegraph that they not only expect to lose on November 4, but also believe that Mr Obama is poised to win a crushing mandate.

They believe he will be powerful enough to remake the American political landscape with even more ease than Ronald Reagan did in 1980.

The prospect of an electoral rout has unleashed a bitter bout of recriminations both within the McCain campaign and the wider conservative movement, over who is to blame and what should be done to salvage the party's future.

Mr McCain is now facing calls for him to sacrifice his own dwindling White House hopes and focus on saving vulnerable Republican Senate seats which are up for grabs on the same day.

Their fear is that Democrat candidates riding on Mr Obama's popularity may win the nine extra seats they need in the Senate to give them unfettered power in Congress.

If the Democrat majority in the Senate is big enough - at least 60 seats to 40 - the Republicans will be unable to block legislation by use of a traditional filibuster - talking until legislation runs out of time. No president has had the support of such a majority since Jimmy Carter won the 1976 election. President Reagan achieved his political transformation partly through the power of his personality.

David Frum, a former Bush speechwriter, told The Sunday Telegraph that Republicans should now concentrate all their fire on "the need for balanced government".

"It's hard to see a turnaround in the White House race," he said. "This could look like an ideological as well as a party victory if we're not careful. It could be 1980 in reverse.

"With this huge new role for federal government in the economy, the possibility for mischief making is very, very great. One man should not have a monopoly of political and financial power. That's very dangerous."

In North Carolina, where Senator Elizabeth Dole seems set to loose, Republicans are running adverts that appear to take an Obama victory for granted, warning that the Democrat will have a "blank cheque" if her rival Kay Hagen wins. "These liberals want complete control of government in a time of crisis," the narrator says. "All branches of Government. No checks and balances."

Democrats lead in eight of the 12 competitive Senate races and need just nine gains to reach their target of 60. Even Mitch McConnell, the leader of Senate Republicans, is at risk in Kentucky, normally a rock solid red state.

A private memo on the likely result of the congressional elections, leaked to Politico, has the Republicans losing 37 seats.

Ed Rollins, who masterminded Ronald Reagan's second victory in 1984, said the election is already over and predicted: "This is going to turn into a landslide."

A former White House official who still advises President Bush told The Sunday Telegraph: "McCain hasn't won independents, nor has he inspired the base. It's the worst of all worlds. He is dragging everyone else down with him. He needs to deploy people and money to salvage what we can in Congress."

The prospect of defeat has unleashed what insiders describe as an "every man for himself" culture within the McCain campaign, with aides in a "circular firing squad" as blame is assigned.

More profoundly, it sparked the first salvoes in a Republican civil war with echoes of Tory infighting during their years in the political wilderness.

One wing believes the party has to emulate David Cameron, by adapting the issues to fight on and the positions they hold, while the other believes that a back to basics approach will reconnect with heartland voters and ensure success. Modernisers fear that would leave Republicans marginalised, like the Tories were during the Iain Duncan Smith years, condemning them to opposition for a decade.

Mr Frum argues that just as America is changing, so the Republican Party must adapt its economic message and find more to say about healthcare and the environment if it is to survive.

He said: "I don't know that there's a lot of realism in the Republican Party. We have an economic message that is largely irrelevant to most people.

"Cutting personal tax rates is not the answer to everything. The Bush years were largely prosperous but while national income was up the numbers for most individuals were not. Republicans find that a hard fact to process."

Other Republicans have jumped ship completely. Ken Adelman, a Pentagon adviser on the Iraq war, Matthew Dowd, who was Mr Bush's chief re-election strategist, and Scott McClellan, Mr Bush's former press secretary, have all endorsed Mr Obama.

But the real bile has been saved for those conservatives who have balked at the selection of Sarah Palin.

In addition to Mr Frum, who thinks her not ready to be president, Peggy Noonan, Ronald Reagan's greatest speechwriter and a columnist with the Wall Street Journal, condemned Mr McCain's running mate as a "symptom and expression of a new vulgarisation of American politics." Conservative columnist David Brooks called her a "fatal cancer to the Republican Party".

The backlash that ensued last week revealed the fault lines of the coming civil war.

Rush Limbaugh, the doyen of right wing talk radio hosts, denounced Noonan, Brooks and Frum. Neconservative writer Charles Krauthammer condemned "the rush of wet-fingered conservatives leaping to Barack Obama", while fellow columnist Tony Blankley said that instead of collaborating in heralding Mr Obama's arrival they should be fighting "in a struggle to the political death for the soul of the country".

During the primaries the Democratic Party was bitterly divided between Barack Obama's "latte liberals" and Hillary Clinton's heartland supporters, but now the same cultural division threatens to tear the Republican Party apart.

Jim Nuzzo, a White House aide to the first President Bush, dismissed Mrs Palin's critics as "cocktail party conservatives" who "give aid and comfort to the enemy".

He told The Sunday Telegraph: "There's going to be a bloodbath. A lot of people are going to be excommunicated. David Brooks and David Frum and Peggy Noonan are dead people in the Republican Party. The litmus test will be: where did you stand on Palin?"

Mr Frum thinks that Mrs Palin's brand of cultural conservatism appeals only to a dwindling number of voters.

He said: "She emerges from this election as the probable frontrunner for the 2012 nomination. Her supporters vastly outnumber her critics. But it will be extremely difficult for her to win the presidency."

Mr Nuzzo, who believes this election is not a re-run of the 1980 Reagan revolution but of 1976, when an ageing Gerald Ford lost a close contest and then ceded the leadership of the Republican Party to Mr Reagan.

He said: "Win or lose, there is a ready made conservative candidate waiting in the wings. Sarah Palin is not the new Iain Duncan Smith, she is the new Ronald Reagan." On the accuracy of that judgment, perhaps, rests the future of the Republican Party.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...the-party.html
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:43 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Jenson71 View Post
Saying that atheism is growing at an alarming rate is not an opinion though. 'When you were a child, you thought like a child,' and lived a child's' sheltered life, not exposed to many ideas outside of your home and immediate community - like the neighborhood and school.

You act as if Democrat is synonymous with atheist and the Republican party the defender of Jesus and all that is good and true.

I think it's PR and marketing. That's an opinion.
Please let me know when you have put away childish things Jenson.
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Old 10-28-2008, 04:23 PM   #92
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Regarding 2012 and the future of the Republican Party, this guy has been generating some buzz lately here in Wisconsin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_D._Ryan

He's been running a TON of ads even though he's seen as a nearly a lock for re-election. Some are speculating that the ads are more about the future than the present with an eye towards the Senate and possibly even the White House.
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Old 10-28-2008, 06:15 PM   #93
irishjayhawk irishjayhawk is offline
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Originally Posted by Jenson71 View Post
I think it's certainly becoming more accepted, regular, and prominent. I think strict atheism though is not growing in terms of numbers. I know it seems unlikely, but only about 10% or less in America are atheists. What is growing is "non-religious"
It depends what you consider atheist. The "New Atheism" (I hate that phrase) definition of atheism isn't what is commonly thought of. It's more agnostic in nature, but does away with the agnostic 50-50 odds part. Instead, it's more like 99-1. But you probably already knew that.


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I think in America a lot of that is probably cultural backlash.
In what way?
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Old 10-28-2008, 06:41 PM   #94
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KCJohnny, with all due respect, you come very close to having your religion defined for you by the Republican party. That's not a Catholic view. One can be a Democrat and a Catholic, in good standing, with the Church. To believe the Republican party has the monopoly over Christianity is a relatively new, politically Protestant Evangelical belief that Catholics should resist. A political party does not define religious beliefs. Though they can agree, for instance Catholic teaching on abortion and the more accepted Republican position on the issue. Unfortunately, since Vatican II, many American Catholics have had little identity of their own, and have either gravitated towards either a liberal, careless view of Christianity or a politically Evangelical view. In both cases, the Church is shunned and neglected, viewed as neither sacred nor entirely important; perhaps good for some sound bites, but not much else.

I have seen how Evangelical Christianity has crept its way into Catholicism every time I talk to my fellow Catholics who are basically grabbing on to anything that can find that presents itself as being "more Christian." I have met many Catholics that are interested in their faith who shun the word religion, are afraid of reason and logic, praise praise bands, feel embarrassed by the Church for a number of reasons, view Mass as a social gathering, believe Billy Graham would have made the best Pope, believe there should not be a Pope, believe Jerry Falwell was better than any Pope, believe Pat Robertson to be Christ's Vicar on Earth.

Do not tell me the Republican party is the only party for Catholics. I emphatically disagree with such an unholy, disrespectful position.
I don't have time to answer in full now, Mr. Jensen. We will all have to answer for our votes one day. You know that the Right to Life is the primary issue that the Church is speaking out about as touching political activity. You know full well that the US Council of Catholic Bishops are united in the primacy and urgency of this issue. You also know that our Church teaches that governments should provide justice, not benevolence.

You also miscast the issues by trying to conflate my Christian beliefs wirh my political views. Neither party is perfectly aligned with the Church. But my conscience will not permit me to vote for candidates who believe that economics in the most wealthy nation on earth is a more important issue than the destruction of the family, traditional marriage, 45 million abortions, a 50% divorce rate, etc...

Politically, I am a follower of [Roman Catholic] Alan Keyes.
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Old 10-28-2008, 06:49 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by irishjayhawk View Post
In what way?
Because the Right has shoved religion down people's throats, it's easy to just be sick of them, and start listening to the other guys.

Also, the Right's war/seeming war on science (even if there is no war on science, the perception is definitely there); naturally, why wouldn't you side with their opponents?

Ayn Rand was an atheist, and she was certainly no leftist. Christopher Hitchens as well. H.L. Mencken was no populist either. Those are just a couple of examples to the norm.

Americans today are of the age where they more than likely grew up or had an impression on them of the Religious Right. It's no suprise there might be a cultural backlash against everything they are for.
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Old 10-28-2008, 06:52 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Jenson71 View Post
KCJohnny, with all due respect, you come very close to having your religion defined for you by the Republican party. That's not a Catholic view. One can be a Democrat and a Catholic, in good standing, with the Church. To believe the Republican party has the monopoly over Christianity is a relatively new, politically Protestant Evangelical belief that Catholics should resist. A political party does not define religious beliefs. Though they can agree, for instance Catholic teaching on abortion and the more accepted Republican position on the issue. Unfortunately, since Vatican II, many American Catholics have had little identity of their own, and have either gravitated towards either a liberal, careless view of Christianity or a politically Evangelical view. In both cases, the Church is shunned and neglected, viewed as neither sacred nor entirely important; perhaps good for some sound bites, but not much else.

I have seen how Evangelical Christianity has crept its way into Catholicism every time I talk to my fellow Catholics who are basically grabbing on to anything that can find that presents itself as being "more Christian." I have met many Catholics that are interested in their faith who shun the word religion, are afraid of reason and logic, praise praise bands, feel embarrassed by the Church for a number of reasons, view Mass as a social gathering, believe Billy Graham would have made the best Pope, believe there should not be a Pope, believe Jerry Falwell was better than any Pope, believe Pat Robertson to be Christ's Vicar on Earth.

Do not tell me the Republican party is the only party for Catholics. I emphatically disagree with such an unholy, disrespectful position.
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Old 10-28-2008, 06:53 PM   #97
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how insulting to Ronald Reagan ... and i'm not even a big Reagan fan.
If Nancy was well she would go kick Palin's ass because people are saying such tripe.
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Old 10-28-2008, 06:55 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by KCJohnny View Post
I don't have time to answer in full now, Mr. Jensen. We will all have to answer for our votes one day. You know that the Right to Life is the primary issue that the Church is speaking out about as touching political activity. You know full well that the US Council of Catholic Bishops are united in the primacy and urgency of this issue. You also know that our Church teaches that governments should provide justice, not benevolence.

You also miscast the issues by trying to conflate my Christian beliefs wirh my political views. Neither party is perfectly aligned with the Church. But my conscience will not permit me to vote for candidates who believe that economics in the most wealthy nation on earth is a more important issue than the destruction of the family, traditional marriage, 45 million abortions, a 50% divorce rate, etc...

Politically, I am a follower of [Roman Catholic] Alan Keyes.
Fine Johnny...but don't say Democrats aren't Christians...that is just asinine. There are republicans and democrats alike that support some or all of those issues important to you.
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Old 10-28-2008, 06:55 PM   #99
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I am not an atheist-I do believe in a higher power. But I believe he/she has a slew of galaxies to tend and has a full slate of issues to contend with, and our little planet is not a high priority. We may get a look see every other millenium or so, but I think we are pretty much left on our own.
And I really feel that people in this life that are judgemental are in for a rude awakening in the afterlife.
JMO
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Old 10-28-2008, 06:55 PM   #100
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If Nancy was well she would go kick Palin's ass because people are saying such tripe.
She certainly hated McNasty's guts.
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Old 10-28-2008, 06:59 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by KCJohnny View Post
You also miscast the issues by trying to conflate my Christian beliefs wirh my political views. Neither party is perfectly aligned with the Church. But my conscience will not permit me to vote for candidates who believe that economics in the most wealthy nation on earth is a more important issue than the destruction of the family, traditional marriage, 45 million abortions, a 50% divorce rate, etc...
Thank you for your respectful reply, KCJohnny.

I think the issues you speak of are extremely important. I also think they are cultural issues; expecting a president or a party to fix them is not happening. Republicans had Congressional majority from 1995-2006. You realize that in the past forty years, only 12 did not have a Republican president? Tell me: what has our King done for you in these issues?

The answer is nothing. It's cultural. You can prop your King up all you want as the answer to your prayers. 40 years tells us the fetuses will still be gutted, the marriages will still shatter, and the family will still crumble to pieces.
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:14 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Jenson71 View Post
Because the Right has shoved religion down people's throats, it's easy to just be sick of them, and start listening to the other guys.

Also, the Right's war/seeming war on science (even if there is no war on science, the perception is definitely there); naturally, why wouldn't you side with their opponents?

Ayn Rand was an atheist, and she was certainly no leftist. Christopher Hitchens as well. H.L. Mencken was no populist either. Those are just a couple of examples to the norm.

Americans today are of the age where they more than likely grew up or had an impression on them of the Religious Right. It's no suprise there might be a cultural backlash against everything they are for.

I'll buy that. And, to be sure, I never said there weren't exceptions.
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Old 10-29-2008, 12:45 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Jenson71 View Post
Thank you for your respectful reply, KCJohnny.

I think the issues you speak of are extremely important. I also think they are cultural issues; expecting a president or a party to fix them is not happening. Republicans had Congressional majority from 1995-2006. You realize that in the past forty years, only 12 did not have a Republican president? Tell me: what has our King done for you in these issues?

The answer is nothing. It's cultural. You can prop your King up all you want as the answer to your prayers. 40 years tells us the fetuses will still be gutted, the marriages will still shatter, and the family will still crumble to pieces.
Thank God Frederick Douglass and Hyman Beecher didn't take a position like that about the abolition of slavery. I do not look to the state, but to the people to correct the cultural injustices in our society. the government however is explicitly involved in many of the pathologies, chiefly abortion and no-fault divorce, sex-ed indoctrination and the indoctrination in evolutionary theory.

My question to you is had there not been conservatives in government during those 40 years, how much worse would our situation be now?
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Old 10-29-2008, 12:55 AM   #104
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Was at one time..... You, you have wanted to mettle in his cum for some time, would that be the man side of you or the female side of you, we are confused.
wtf?
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Old 10-29-2008, 01:02 AM   #105
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When will Sarah make a monkey movie?
I thought that's what this campaign was
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This is a test for a client's site.
A new website that shows member-created construction site listings that need fill or have excess fill. Dirt Monkey @ https://DirtMonkey.net
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