Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Ed & Dave Lounge

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-13-2009, 09:01 PM  
Mr. Krab Mr. Krab is offline
Big Red Nuts
 
Mr. Krab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Kansas City
Casino cash: $5000
info about Pendergast and his Cardinal scheme

Scheme flexibility

Do the Cardinals run a 3-4 or 4-3 defense? The answer is, well, yes.

By Eric Edholm
Jan. 30, 2009

TAMPA, Fla. - Cardinals LB coach Bill Davis leaned back in his seat, exhaled and tried to remember a conversation he had five years and two jobs ago.

"I have been so many places, you tend to forget what you did when and when things happened," Davis said "It all blends together."

Indeed. In 17 NFL seasons, Davis has worked for eight clubs and has run or been a part of just about every kind of defensive scheme there is. He has been around long enough to have seen the 3-4 defense go out of style and subsequently come back as, what Steelers offensive coordinator Bruce Arians calls it, "the vogue defense right now," including his own team's superior unit.

But do the Cardinals run a 3-4 also? The answer might surprise you.

"Everybody puts us in that 3-4 category, but what we are is an 'under front, a 4-3 'under' defense, "Davis explains. "The 'under' is almost a 3-4. As 3-4 [defenses] go, it's not really what we do here."

An 'under' defense slants towards the tight end. Likewise, an 'over' front shifts away from the tight end. As he explains the workings of the Cardinal's defense, Davis starts talking, then does as any good coach or teacher would: He grabs a pen and paper. "Well,here, let me show you want i mean ..."

Pretty soon, he's scratching out the defensive scheme on a paper, the same one the Cardinals will use to try to stop the Steelers on Sunday. He also, for comparison, sketches out the traditional 3-4 defense and the 4-3 'even' front, both of what he has taught and coached in the NFL.

"When you're talking about the 3-4 team, you have the three D-lineman," Davis said. "Then you have [two] outside 'backers; then [the inside linebackers] bubble on the guards."

Bubbling, in the defensive terms, is to line up across from an uncovered offensive lineman. In the 3-4, it's the two offensive guards that most often don't have a defensive lineman in front of them. The defensive ends are lined up in a five-techniques, or on the outside shoulder of the offensive tackles. The nose tackle is head up across from the center.

Said Davis: "These guys [defensive linemen] are supposed to two-gap, and these outside [linebackers] are interchangeable rush-or-pass guys. And that's the dynamic of the 3-4."

But in the 4-3 'under' front, like the Cardinals use as their base defense which looks similar to the 3-4 to the naked eye, the biggest difference is in the outside linebackers. The strong-side linebacker is still outside the tightend. But the other outside guy - the Cardinals call this player their "Predator" - is almost always rushing the passer, although the Cards will occasionally drop him into covers to mix things up. Other differences: The nose tackle shades to the A-gap (in between the center and the guard) on the tightend side, and the end on that side moves between the tackle and tightend.

Davis explained that the 3-4 defense creates the most confusion for the offense in terms of which outside linebacker is doing what, and the standard 4-3 offers the least unpredictability. The Cardinals 4-3 'under' scheme is somewhere between the two in terms of causing the offense to guess who is rushing and who is dropping.

The only player in the 4-3 'under' who is left uncovered is the "Mike," or the middle linebacker. In the Cardinals' scheme, that's usually Gerald Hayes. "That's my thumper, more of a thick guy," Davis said, circling the capital M on his piece of paper. "In the 'over' front, when i was in Atlanta [2001 to 2003], we put Keith Brooking - we were actually playing an even scheme, too - but we stacked Keith right behind the three [technique] and he got to run and make players and use his athleticism, and he made his first Pro Bowl playing behind the three."

But in this scheme Hayes, listed at 249 pounds ("or a little less than that," he admits with a wink and smile), is the only uncovered linebacker. That means he often will be taking on 300-pound guards head on. On Sunday, it could be Steeler ORG Darnell Stapleton and his 305 pounds that will meet Hayes more than once. "You don't think about," Hayes says, "you just do it. You can't worry about taking those guys on. It comes with the territory."

Antonio Smith and Darnell Dockett are the ends in this system, backed up by rookies Kenny Iwabema and Calais Campbell. Bryan Robinson and Gabe Watson are the nose tackles. Chike Okeafor is the primary strong-side linebacker, now that Clark Haggans is out with and injury.

Karlos Dansby is the weak-side linebacker. The way the defense is set up, he has a nice protective shield to keep potential blockers at bay. "what we've done with Karlos is put him behind a three-technique, so basically - we call these anchor points - he's got a wall in front of him," Davis said. "So he can run and use his athleticism. The center can't get him because the nose is on him. The guard can't get him because the end is on him. And the tackle can't get him because the predator is on him. So this is your athlete that can run, go cover ground and make plays.

Th "Predator" position is manned by Bertrand Berry and Travis LaBoy, assuming LaBoy is healthy enough to play Sunder. Both guys really are defensive ends by trade, but Davis considers them his guys.

"At the end of the day, I have these guys [the "Predators"] in my meeting room, so that puts us closer to this scheme [4-3 under]," he said. "And i put them in a two-point stance. This is the key right there: This guy right here [the three-technique weak side end] almost makes us have to rush the passer. As soon as you move him inside [from a five-technique], his responsibility in this is to play this very same gap."

Davis has coached this scheme with the Giants and 49ers, but this is the first time in a while one of his defenses has used it as the base grouping. He has picked up pieces of different schemes from a bunch of different schools around the league and likes the flexibility of what he and the other defenses have discover in the 4-3 'under' formation.

"The [Bill] Belichicks, [Dom] Capers, the [Bill] Parcells, that whole group ... they play the 'under' front most of the time, but they move to it," Davis said. "So are we a 3-4? Almost."

It just depends on how you look at it. Or under it.

Last edited by Mr. Krab; 03-14-2009 at 10:30 AM..
Posts: 3,512
Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2009, 11:25 AM   #46
Mr. Krab Mr. Krab is offline
Big Red Nuts
 
Mr. Krab's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Kansas City
Casino cash: $5000
more:

The Mike Linebacker plays the first back out of the back field to the strong side. The Free Safety plays the first back out of the back field to the weak side. The Will linebacker plays the short middle. The gives us a man in the hole in the short middle area of the field. If we get a full flow by the backs to the strong side the Mike linebacker takes the first back and the Will linebacker takes the second back out of the backfield. The Free Safety becomes the short middle player. If it is a full flow weak side play the Free Safety has the first back and the Will linebacker has the second man to the weak side. The Mike linebacker becomes the short hole player. In theory the middle hole player helps with the tight end but in reality he is the second line of defense against any breakdown in the pass rush. They can help on the draw play, scramble by the quarterback, or screen passes that they can see developing.



If the offense comes out in a different look such as a Twins look to one side, the basic core of the defense stays the same. There are no adjustments to be made. The defenders take their men in coverage regardless of where they line up. The Mike linebacker has help in the middle from the short hole player. However, he canít allow himself to get beat in the flat. The play action pass is a problem for this defense. That is an area on which you really have to focus on reads and execution. That is a critical aspect you have to practice.






Before we go any further, letís talk about personnel. You want to get your best players on the field. The open side Defensive End has to be one of your best football players. Size does not matter as much. We want an athletic player who can move around.


At Nose Tackle you have to find a player who likes to mix it up. We want a big guy in there who likes to get down and dirty. He is going to get doubled a lot on the run and pass and is going to get down blocked a lot. He has to be a tough player. This guy can be a short and stubby type of player.
The other defensive tackle the 3 technique player should be your premier interior pass rusher. He is going to get a lot of one on one blocks as it is hard to double team him because of where he lines up.



The defensive end to the tight end side needs to be a defensive player that can play the run. He does not have to be a big time pass rusher. He has to play the C gap and stop the run.



The Mike linebacker is a traditional middle linebacker. He is instinctive and makes a lot of calls for the defense. He may be the guy with the most experience or the best feel for the game.



The Will linebacker can be a smaller player. He is generally protected in the defensive schemes and will not see as many blocks. All you want him to do most plays is flow and chase the football. We want our fastest linebacker at this position.
The Sam linebacker has to be a good containment player. He has to be big and strong enough to play on the edge of the tight end. He has to be able to run in pass coverage also.
The defensive backs that are the best run defenders are our safeties. The Free Safety is another player who makes a lot of tackles for us. He has to have good instincts. He is what we call a natural player. You donít have to coach this player too much. He has to have a feel for the everything and understand the big picture.


The corners have to run fast if you plan on playing bump and run. If they donít run fast then you can still play with them. But if your corners are not faster than the wide receivers you are facing donít play bump and run. Your asking them to do something they can not do and theyíll get beat deep. It is a race when you play bump and run and if you canít win the race donít play bump and run.


If you have a million reads for your secondary you are crazy. They donít need that even at our level. All they need to know is their primary responsibility and then secondary. At the highest level in the NFL the pass game is as complex as you can imagine. However if a defender can play the post and the seam route then they can learn to play at that level. The thing that kills and breaks down a defense is a ball being thrown over the defenderís head for a touchdown.
Teach your younger players to play the deep middle and forget about all the confusing rules. The guy who is playing in the middle of the field has to figure out who can get into the middle. We want our safety to play in the middle of the two receivers that can run the post route. He wants to split the relationship with anyone who can get down the middle.
When we play pass defense with our corners we play as tight was we can for the match up. Against spread offenses we back them off more.



If we get a one back or an Ace set the safeties are going to take care of it. Everything else in the defense stays the same. The Mike and Will linebackers take the back out of the backfield. If he goes to the strong side the Mike linebacker takes him. If he goes to the weak side the Will linebacker takes him. The linebacker that is not involved in coverage drops into the short middle hole on pass coverage. The Free Safety adjusts down to take the second tight end.





If the offense spreads out a bit into a double set to one side we donít make any adjustment except to match up better with the safeties. Everything else on the defense remains the same. Everyone is playing their gap control and support schemes. If the back goes in motion to leave an empty backfield set the linebacker to the side of the motion takes him. The remaining linebacker bumps over to the middle to balance the defense and plays football.





If the offense comes out in a triples set the adjustment is made by the safeties. In this case pictured the Strong Safety goes out to cover the third receiver to the strong side. The Free Safety moves to the middle third of the field and plays the middle third. Everyone else stays the same with the linebackers playing the remaining back the same way. Trips to the other side would flop the role of the safeties. Or if one is a better cover person that the other you can protect accordingly.





For a base defense to hold up you have to have some things that you can use to complement it. When you play USC every single one of my players is going to have a blitz pattern. The offense will have to account for every player on our side of the ball in their pass protection scheme.


The next thing that I am going to show you are some of the most basic combinations of pass rushes that we use with the under defensive front. I want it to be multiple so that the defense doesnít know who is coming and from where.


The first blitz that I am going to show you is what we simply refer to as ďSam and MikeĒ. We are going to use the strong side linebacker and middle linebackers to rush the passer. We slant our strong side defensive end, nose guard, and 3 technique to the open side of their formation away from their normal rush gaps. The weak side defensive end is going to drop into pass coverage on this play. The alignment is the same as before. The Corners are line up in tight coverage but are going to bail out and play a three deep zone coverage with the Free Safety. The Corners will play outside leverage on this blitz and force everything inside. The Free Safety is playing a deep middle. The weak side Defense End and Strong Safety are the outside defenders to each side. They are playing seam coverage with the Will linebacker in the middle seam. The Strong Safety and weak side Defensive End play what we call the hot receivers to their side. Once the quarterback sees the blitz heíll often throw to these short areas to his designated hot receiver. If the tight end comes down the middle seam the Strong Safety collapses on him. The Defensive End does the same thing with the back out of the backfield.





The Will linebacker is playing the hot receiver to the middle of the field. That means he is finding the third receiver and covering him if he comes out on a hot route. When we overload on the rush the ball with be thrown quickly. We want good spacing in our coverage people so we can react by changing up, and make the play for a short gain.



The formation doesnít matter much. We have to find the hot receivers on this blitz and identify them. Another advantage the defense has in these types of stunts is the change up of the line. The defensive line is now slanting away from where they have been playing the entire game. That changes the landmark for the offensive lineman and gives the defensive lineman an advantage in his pass rush. The defense has to have counter moves to the keep the offense off balance.
This stunt can also be used in run defense. To give us a change up we bring the Sam linebacker underneath the tight ends block. We can also let the Sam linebacker play under all the blocks and bounce plays to the outside. Those are changes we add to the base defense to keep the offense off balance.


Another way to get five man pressure on the quarterback is our Under Safety blitz. On this stunt we are bringing the Free Safety from the outside. The defensive line is slanting away from his blitz. The corners are playing their same bail

coverage and the Strong Safety is going to the deep middle.



The Sam and Will linebackers have the first two hot receivers and the Mike with have the hot third receiver.





A very effective stunt from this defense is called ďSam and SafetyĒ. On this stunt we are blitzing with both the Sam and the Free Safety. The defense line slants to the Free Safety side. The open side Defensive End comes off in coverage and everything else is the same. The Mike linebacker and the drop end have the first two hot receivers and the Will linebacker has the third.


One of the problems we have when we drop the Defensive End in coverage is containment to his side. When we drop the end it means the 3 Technique tackle has to work hard to contain outside. That is not a good situation but we work hard to make it work.



We also like to bring the defensive backs in the blitz scheme. If they can disguise the stunt they can get there in a hurry. We like to bring the Corner on a blitz as a change up from time to time. The Corner aligns in a bump and run technique. On the snap of the ball however he comes hard off the corner. The Free Safety cheats back and covers the deep outside third. The Strong Safety is covering the middle third and the strong side corner in this case is taking the outside third to his side. The rush end and the 3 technique rush the A gap and the B gap. The corner comes off the edge.




The Sam, Mike, and Will linebackers play the hot zones on this play. You can mix up your blitzes according to your needs. This simplistic blitz scheme lets you bring pressure from a number of different areas. You can game plan the match ups the way you want with other combination as well. The important thing in this blitz pattern is that we are not changing anything in our basic schemes underneath.
Posts: 3,512
Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2009, 01:44 PM   #47
ncCHIEFfan ncCHIEFfan is offline
Starter
 

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Winston Salem, NC
Casino cash: $5100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coogs View Post
Care to elaborate?
I just think the team will do things differently. No one on the D was sucsessful last season and depending on the philosofy of the coaches this will change one way or another
Posts: 563
ncCHIEFfan is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutncCHIEFfan is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutncCHIEFfan is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutncCHIEFfan is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutncCHIEFfan is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutncCHIEFfan is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutncCHIEFfan is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutncCHIEFfan is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutncCHIEFfan is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutncCHIEFfan is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutncCHIEFfan is the dumbass Milkman is always talking about
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 09:51 AM   #48
Mr. Krab Mr. Krab is offline
Big Red Nuts
 
Mr. Krab's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Kansas City
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncCHIEFfan View Post
I just think the team will do things differently. No one on the D was sucsessful last season and depending on the philosofy of the coaches this will change one way or another
I'd feel alot more confident of that if it was Crennel leading the defense instead of Pendergast.
Posts: 3,512
Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 11:15 AM   #49
talastan talastan is offline
Manning, we're coming for you!
 
talastan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Springfield, Mo
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by orange View Post
Mr. Krab's,

LOL at your valiant but vain attempt to make the author appear literate. You'll have to do a lot more editing to get to that point.

"... the traditional 3-4 defense and the 4-3 'even' front, both of what he has tought and coached in the NFL."

CRIPEY. Is this guy actually paid to put words in print?
Isn't it spelled Crikey?
__________________
Can we please just draft AND DEVELOP a QB - est. since 1983

Check out my band:

Truett and the Traitors
Posts: 4,815
talastan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.talastan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.talastan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.talastan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.talastan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.talastan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.talastan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.talastan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.talastan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.talastan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.talastan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 12:12 PM   #50
orange orange is offline
MVP
 

Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Denver, CO
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by talastan View Post
Isn't it spelled Crikey?
Cripes, cripey, crikey - they're all euphemisms for "Christ!" (which is impolite and stronger than I intended).
Posts: 11,661
orange Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.orange Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.orange Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.orange Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.orange Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.orange Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.orange Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.orange Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.orange Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.orange Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.orange Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 03:02 PM   #51
whoman69 whoman69 is offline
The Master
 
whoman69's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Casino cash: $5000
All this arguing back and forth on what scheme we are going to play. This team had big holes last year. No matter what we do, holes are likely still going to exist. Pendergast is going to need to find out where those holes will be and try to minimize them hoping the opposition won't find those holes. They are bound to find them though. What we need to have as a goal is to get our players that will be with us on the right page. Our young players have just never gotten it. That needs to change.
__________________
-Watching Eddie Podolak
Quote:
Originally posted by Logical
When the boobs are a bouncin, the Chiefs will be trouncin
What the Raiders fan has said is true, our customs are different. What Al Davis has said is unimportant, and we do not hear his words.
Posts: 23,081
whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.whoman69 is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2009, 12:49 PM   #52
Mr. Krab Mr. Krab is offline
Big Red Nuts
 
Mr. Krab's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Kansas City
Casino cash: $5000
bump
Posts: 3,512
Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.Mr. Krab is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2009, 01:22 PM   #53
beach tribe beach tribe is offline
I'm Comin'
 
beach tribe's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2007
Location: ft.lauderdale
Casino cash: $5380
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
You guys are WAY overestimating Arizona's "talent" on the defensive side of the ball. Their "core" consists of a 2nd-tier safety, a streaky DT, a 2nd-round LB, and a CB that they can't find a spot for because he's not good enough to play CB fulltime.
I always read these posts about AZ D talent, and shake my head. Do they have more than us. Yeah, but not by much, and they surely aren't loaded with talent. They have some guys that had big names coming out of college, but they never really did jack.
__________________
Posts: 17,404
beach tribe threw an interception on a screen pass.beach tribe threw an interception on a screen pass.beach tribe threw an interception on a screen pass.beach tribe threw an interception on a screen pass.beach tribe threw an interception on a screen pass.beach tribe threw an interception on a screen pass.beach tribe threw an interception on a screen pass.beach tribe threw an interception on a screen pass.beach tribe threw an interception on a screen pass.beach tribe threw an interception on a screen pass.beach tribe threw an interception on a screen pass.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.