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Old 05-20-2009, 08:06 PM  
banyon banyon is offline
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Republican health care plan? Raise everyone's taxes!

LOL, I hope you guys who were so outraged at the richest 1%'s rates don't mind when you have to give up a much bigger chunk of your own money.


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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124286548605041517.html

WASHINGTON -- Republican lawmakers stepped up their opposition to Democrats' plans for overhauling the nation's health-care system, introducing legislation on Wednesday that would give Americans tax credits to pay for health insurance.

The plan, backed by some Republicans in the House and Senate, offers a glimpse into how the GOP is mobilizing against Democrats' effort to create a public insurance plan and to require companies to provide or otherwise pay for health-insurance coverage for workers. Republican lawmakers say such measures would bureaucratize the nation's health system and stifle job creation.


Paul Ryan
Given the Democrats' control of Congress, the Republican plan has little chance of passage. But it reflects some Republican lawmakers' growing dissatisfaction with a bipartisan effort to fix the health-care system. Congressional leaders hope to pass a health-care overhaul this summer.

The government would run a health plan "with the compassion of the IRS, the efficiency of the post office, and the incompetence of Katrina," according to a summary of the Republicans' plan unveiled on Wednesday. Called the Patients' Choice Act, it would eliminate the tax break that employers receive for providing health-insurance benefits to their workers. Instead, it would give an annual tax credit of $2,300 to each individual and $5,700 to each family that they could use to offset the cost of their health insurance. Low-income families would get extra money to buy into private insurance plans.

Rep. Paul Ryan (R., Wis.) said the system of employer-based coverage is becoming "a 21st century relic" as companies become less generous with benefits.

President Barack Obama has tasked Congress with drawing up legislation to reduce health-care costs and expand health-insurance coverage. He and many Democrats want to create a new public insurance plan to help cover the uninsured and create competition for private insurers.

The Republican plan introduced Wednesday shares some things in common with measures Democrats are pushing. Both parties want to create insurance exchanges that make it easier to comparison-shop for health-care plans. They also want to shift health-care dollars toward preventing chronic diseases like heart disease and diabetes, not just because it will make Americans healthier, but because prevention is cheaper than treating people once they get really sick.

Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D., Mont.), who is leading the effort to draft a health overhaul, said that while this Republican measure meets many of his goals, eliminating the tax incentives for employer-provided health benefits "would destroy the employer-based health-care system we have today."

Karen Davenport, director of health policy at the liberal-leaning Center for American Progress Action Fund, said the Republican plan's tax subsidy wouldn't cover half of the cost of the average family's health-care premiums.

Rep. Ryan introduced the legislation with Sens. Tom Coburn (R., Okla.) and Richard Burr (R., N.C.), and Rep. Devin Nunes (R., Calif.).

Many Democrats are backing the idea of curbing the health-care tax exclusion, which exempts employer health-care benefits from taxation. Under proposed changes, wealthy individuals and people with particularly generous benefits could pay some taxes on their benefits. But most Democrats don't want the exemption eliminated altogether, as called for under the Republican plan.
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Old 05-20-2009, 08:41 PM   #2
KCChiefsMan KCChiefsMan is offline
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how about they just stop charging $3,000 for a visit where the DR spends 10 minutes hooking you up to an IV and then telling you that you are good to go.
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Old 05-20-2009, 09:42 PM   #3
jAZ jAZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon View Post
[color="Blue"] it would eliminate the tax break that employers receive for providing health-insurance benefits to their workers. Instead, it would give an annual tax credit of $2,300 to each individual and $5,700 to each family that they could use to offset the cost of their health insurance.
Can someone explain to me how that wouldn't effectively eliminate the employer healthcare plans that exist today? And thus move more people from the lower premium group ratings to the higher premium individual ratings?
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Old 05-20-2009, 09:58 PM   #4
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Better yet, can someone explain to me how that wouldn't increase health care costs further?

Unless I've fallen asleep in every econ class I've ever taken, subsidies will effectively lower the cost of private health care, thereby raising the demand. And if the demand raises, what happens to the price then?

I'm all for creative solutions to health care, but at some point isn't giving out tax credits for health care effectively increasing taxes?
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Old 05-21-2009, 06:26 AM   #5
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Can someone explain to me how that wouldn't effectively eliminate the employer healthcare plans that exist today? And thus move more people from the lower premium group ratings to the higher premium individual ratings?
If you are a company that is now taxed on paying for healthcare insurance, why would you not look at this and say, well shucks, I'm not going to pay for anyone's insurance if I'm going to get taxed for it and if my employees are now getting government help for health insurance. Let the good ole government take care of it!
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Old 05-21-2009, 06:32 AM   #6
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is online now
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Competitive forces would support that in order to retain the best people benefits play a big role. The employer in this case does take a hit by losing the deduction. However, I think that Banyon misunderstood the term tax credit. The tax credit would go to everyone and they would have the freedom to pay for their insurance wherever they want to, not have it forced upon us by government. This plan has flaws but it allows competition among the providers to continue, it keeps government and all the garbage they would bring out, and would still allow corporations and employees to benefit from group plans.

Of course if you believe that huge government agencies can outperform the private sector then this plan is not going to be too favorable to you.
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Old 05-21-2009, 07:07 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Competitive forces would support that in order to retain the best people benefits play a big role. The employer in this case does take a hit by losing the deduction. However, I think that Banyon misunderstood the term tax credit. The tax credit would go to everyone and they would have the freedom to pay for their insurance wherever they want to, not have it forced upon us by government. This plan has flaws but it allows competition among the providers to continue, it keeps government and all the garbage they would bring out, and would still allow corporations and employees to benefit from group plans.

Of course if you believe that huge government agencies can outperform the private sector then this plan is not going to be too favorable to you.
You're still missing the point. Insurance companies are nothing but crooks. What good is insurance if you still have to out the ass to have anything done because the insurance companies refuse to pay?
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Old 05-21-2009, 07:13 AM   #8
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is online now
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If that is the point then raising taxes or governmental insurance wont address the issue...if that is an issue, why is that not the focus of any of these kookie plans floated by either party?...Then again, is it the insurance companies that are at fault or is it the system itself?

I have Aetna and have never had a dispute with them on any claim I have ever submitted.
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Old 05-21-2009, 07:16 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
If that is the point then raising taxes or governmental insurance wont address the issue...if that is an issue, why is that not the focus of any of these kookie plans floated by either party?...Then again, is it the insurance companies that are at fault or is it the system itself?

I have Aetna and have never had a dispute with them on any claim I have ever submitted.
I'm happy for you. But these assholes are becoming more and more bold at not paying claims. It's been all over the news, in magazines, on the internet for the last 5+ years. They have divisions within their companies who's sole purpose is to figure out how to get out of claims.
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Old 05-21-2009, 08:03 AM   #10
Garcia Bronco Garcia Bronco is offline
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Originally Posted by jAZ View Post
Can someone explain to me how that wouldn't effectively eliminate the employer healthcare plans that exist today? And thus move more people from the lower premium group ratings to the higher premium individual ratings?
I can't. They should leave it the F alone.
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Old 05-21-2009, 08:07 AM   #11
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Old 05-21-2009, 08:10 AM   #12
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Instead, it would give an annual tax credit of $2,300 to each individual and $5,700 to each family that they could use to offset the cost of their health insurance. Low-income families would get extra money to buy into private insurance plans.

WTF? This is raising everyone's taxes?
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Old 05-21-2009, 08:11 AM   #13
banyon banyon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Competitive forces would support that in order to retain the best people benefits play a big role. The employer in this case does take a hit by losing the deduction. However, I think that Banyon misunderstood the term tax credit. The tax credit would go to everyone and they would have the freedom to pay for their insurance wherever they want to, not have it forced upon us by government. This plan has flaws but it allows competition among the providers to continue, it keeps government and all the garbage they would bring out, and would still allow corporations and employees to benefit from group plans.
.
I think you misunderstand. The "credit" isn't nearly enough to cover any type of family health insurance for the year, and previously those benefits were tax incentivized to the employer. Therefore, it would be up to families to make up the difference out of their own pockets or just forego having insurance.
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Old 05-21-2009, 08:28 AM   #14
jAZ jAZ is offline
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Originally Posted by cookster50 View Post
If you are a company that is now taxed on paying for healthcare insurance, why would you not look at this and say, well shucks, I'm not going to pay for anyone's insurance if I'm going to get taxed for it and if my employees are now getting government help for health insurance. Let the good ole government take care of it!
So it would indeed eliminate the employer incentive to be part of the healthcare solution.
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Old 05-21-2009, 08:31 AM   #15
jAZ jAZ is offline
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
The tax credit would go to everyone and they would have the freedom to pay for their insurance wherever they want to

....would still allow corporations and employees to benefit from group plans.
What would keep these employer provided group plans from becoming fewer and fewer, thus making people buy individual rate plans in greater and greater number, thus shifting the balance of buyer/supplyer power in the market dramatically to the supplier, increasing costs, etc.
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