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Old 09-12-2009, 10:50 AM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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It's time for large # of troops to GTFO of Afghanistan.

It's a no win situation for us. Brave Americans are fighting a war in which there is no hope of winning. In this type of war there will never be a "winner". All we are doing is providing easy targets for Taliban to kill.

We can't just ignore military history there and say our effort will be different.

We went into Afganistan with 1,300 troops. When the Taliban fell we had 2.500 troops on the ground. We now have 60,000 troops on the ground and the Taliban control 40-70% of the country's territory.

The new commander in Afghanistan says he sees no evidence of a large Al-Quaeda presense in Afghanistan. That is and will always be the only reason for us to be in Afghanistan. The only reason we are there in the first place. The only reason to sacrifice American lives.

I think we should hunt down and kill every single member of Al=Quaeda, no matter where they are hiding.

We shouldn't be sacrificing American lives to nation build in Afghanistan. Yeah, they want to go back to the 12th century but why should we sacrifice American lives to keep that from happening? Not worth it.

But if we leave the Taliban will take over swiftly and then provide a safe -haven for Al-Quaeda? We don't let that happen. We put cruise millsle up their azz. We send out the drones. We use special forces to take them out.

Edited:

I'm convinced that this is the right decision for these reasons.
  • We can't nation build in Afghanistan. We shouldn't be using our resources and sacrificing our troops to help them. Thats not why we are there. $300 billion spent so far. 900 brave Americans dead. Entering it's 9th year. Just when will it be enough?
  • The argument that the Taliban and Al-Quaeda will just come back may be true but there are several problems with that. Al-Quaeda can be anywhere in the world. So we keep them out of Afghanistan, they show up in Pakistan, Somalia, where ever. I read there is only 100 Al-Quaeda operatives in Afghanistan. There are probably more than that in the USA. If we keep them out of Afghanistan. they will just go some other place. We need a 21st century approach. We won't be able to defeat Al-Quaeda with conventional weapons and strategy. We can always go back in with surgical strikes to take out prime targets and more large scale attacks to prevent Al-Quaeda from establishing bases again. We can't let 100,000 Americans become easy to reach targets for Al-Quaeda.
  • The government is corrupt beyond repair. For those who want to nation build, how can you with a totally corrupt government that the people don't trust? Nation building won't work no matter how many troops or how much money you throw at the problem with a corrupt government distrusted by the people.
  • Afghanistan has no resources. What exactly are they going to make money at, build their country with? It would be a transfer of wealth from us to them.
  • The population outside of Kabul is run by drug overlords. The majority of the population works in the poppy fields because its the only way they can feed their family. How are we going to change that? Provide jobs for those people to feed their families? A lot of those poppy field profits are going right to the Taliban. Just how are you going to end this cycle without a major infusion of American money. Again, a transfer of wealth.

Last edited by BigRedChief; 10-27-2009 at 03:55 PM..
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:41 PM   #196
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:20 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
hey brc, what's shaking in syria?

anything non-classified you can share?
We have to tread lightly unless we want to restart the cold war. We just have to let it play out.
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:21 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by CoMoChief View Post
As long as the opium is there, we're not leaving.

That I can assure you.
Why does our military care about opium?
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:43 PM   #199
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Good News! With a caveat though.

Obama may be scaling back but I read drones are going to be ramped up. So we don't need troops to kill their people.

Oh, and I fully support Obama's choice of Chuck Hagel to head the Defense Dept. Soldiers and veterans groups are cheering the choice while chickenhawks and NeoCons, in both parties have trouble with him.
that sounds like a ringing endorsement
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:12 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Why does our military care about opium?

$$$$...the entire reason we're over there is for that regions resources. Plain and simple.

Oil, opium, gold, and our govt has funded/armed many of the post cold war 'stan countries and Islamic extremists groups (ie: Al-Qaeda) to keep them powerful enough to prevent a weakened Russian force from having access to that region. And it's all now blowing back up in our govt's faces. It's a weird and complex situation over there and really we just need to pack up our shit and leave, but we're not going to because there are corporate interests in that region.

I suggest you read this book....and while you read it you'll get pissed off (seriously):
"The Grand Chessboard" by Zbigniew Brzezinski...."Zbigs" was President Jimmy Carter's national security adviser

Here's the copy via PDF
http://www.takeoverworld.info/Grand_Chessboard.pdf


Here are some excerpts of the book...some quotes that will really make you go WTF?
http://www.takeoverworld.info/grandchessboard.html

Like here's one.... (and remember this book was published back in 1998)
"Moreover, as America becomes an increasingly multi-cultural society, it may find it more difficult to fashion a consensus on foreign policy issues, except in the circumstance of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat." (p. 211)
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:25 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by CoMoChief View Post
$$$$...the entire reason we're over there is for that regions resources. Plain and simple.
WTF? We are in afghanistan for their resources? What resources, sand and rocks?
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:29 PM   #202
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I thought Afghanistan had a huge oil reserve or something like that. By no means a 100% sure, but I thought I remembered hearing something to that effect .
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:42 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
There is no base building boom. THEY ARE CLOSING BASES.WTF are you talking about? We are getting the **** out except for SO.
what the hell are YOU talking about? you quoted the article, not my comment.

As for your assertion "they are closing bases" if you had read the article I posted, you'd know your statement means nothing and has no bearing on the fact our military has no plans to stop pumping billion$ in tax money into the middle east.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:37 PM   #204
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what the hell are YOU talking about? you quoted the article, not my comment.

As for your assertion "they are closing bases" if you had read the article I posted, you'd know your statement means nothing and has no bearing on the fact our military has no plans to stop pumping billion$ in tax money into the middle east.
Of course we are not leaving the middle east and the only reason we give a shit is that is where the oil is. But I'm talking specifically about Afghanistan not the middle east as a whole.

As far as you know more about our military bases in the middle east than me................
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:46 PM   #205
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I thought Afghanistan had a huge oil reserve or something like that. By no means a 100% sure, but I thought I remembered hearing something to that effect .
Nope. No oil whatsover. But, they have about a trillion $'s worth of unmined lithium and copper. However no one is hopeful that it will be used for the betterment of the country but to enrich the ruling party. Thats one of the reason we are cutting bait. Even a trillion $ won't kick start this country's rise out of the 5th century.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:51 PM   #206
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I'd like to know that Karzai and the Afghan government will make sure they are devoted to keep their own security moving forward. This includes making sure things like girls attending school is guaranteed.

I'd also like to hear Obama's guarantees for the same thing and what the plan is for when the Taliban and AQ start to impose their ideals once we're gone.

Not keeping Bagram up and running is a deal breaker for me.
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:17 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
WTF? We are in afghanistan for their resources? What resources, sand and rocks?
Opium production not to mention numerous mining reserves (like what you have already said)

What is lithium used for here in the US?
- Oh I dunno, maybe just about every battery, cellphone, computer you name it..just about every electronic that we use for everyday life.
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Old 01-13-2013, 06:27 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
I'd like to know that Karzai and the Afghan government will make sure they are devoted to keep their own security moving forward. This includes making sure things like girls attending school is guaranteed.

I'd also like to hear Obama's guarantees for the same thing and what the plan is for when the Taliban and AQ start to impose their ideals once we're gone.

Not keeping Bagram up and running is a deal breaker for me.
There are no guarantees other than the return of Al-Qaeda safe havens will never happen.

The bottom line is...........Either you GTFO or you nation build. You can't nation build when all they have is gangs and rocks. It sucks that they treat women like they do but WTF are we suppose to do? We can't use our military to invade every country that treats its citizens poorly. Use our blood and treasure to throw the despots out. What happened to caring about our debt and deficit?

The Taliban will be back in power not too long after we leave. Karzi is a corrupt man.
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Old 01-13-2013, 06:29 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by CoMoChief View Post
Opium production not to mention numerous mining reserves (like what you have already said)

What is lithium used for here in the US?
- Oh I dunno, maybe just about every battery, cellphone, computer you name it..just about every electronic that we use for everyday life.
You see the boogeyman around every corner. We have no desire to stay in Afghanistan. It's a hell hole of a pit that has swallows nations blood and treasure since the times of Alexander.
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Old 01-13-2013, 06:36 PM   #210
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There are no guarantees other than the return of Al-Qaeda safe havens will never happen.

The bottom line is...........Either you GTFO or you nation build. You can't nation build when all they have is gangs and rocks. It sucks that they treat women like they do but WTF are we suppose to do? We can't use our military to invade every country that treats its citizens poorly. Use our blood and treasure to throw the despots out. What happened to caring about our debt and deficit?

The Taliban will be back in power not too long after we leave. Karzi is a corrupt man.
If Karzai is as corrupt as you say both Obama and Bush ****ed up. I don't disagree with you, just stating it the way I see it.

And if you don't like nation building you sure can't approve of what we're doing in the rest of the ME.
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