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Old 01-16-2010, 07:49 PM  
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Are the Democrats done for the next 4 years?

Have they effecitvely pissed off enough people to ensure they are booted and Obama is a 1-term President?

I know things could change to save Obama but if this health care bill gets rammed down our throats will the Dems essentially be signing their own death certificate?

And to address a more cyncical aspect, is passage of the health care bill among the other the Dems wish to ram through the beginning sparks to the 2nd revolt?
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Old 01-16-2010, 08:22 PM   #2
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Old 01-16-2010, 08:49 PM   #3
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Old 01-16-2010, 08:50 PM   #4
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I think we're headed back to gridlock, thank God.
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Old 01-16-2010, 08:53 PM   #5
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Old 01-16-2010, 08:54 PM   #6
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I think we're headed back to gridlock, thank God.
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Old 01-16-2010, 09:41 PM   #7
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Old 01-16-2010, 09:44 PM   #8
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Old 01-16-2010, 10:30 PM   #9
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B.O. is a turd.
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Old 01-17-2010, 12:41 AM   #10
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Well I don't think a lot of people hold the Rs in lofty regard either.

And I wonder if gridlock is really that true anymore. Both parties keep spending, and growing govt and having us police the world with more stupid wars.
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Old 01-17-2010, 07:46 AM   #11
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Well I don't think a lot of people hold the Rs in lofty regard either.
I don't think the republicans being held in high regard will have anything to do with it. What the country will be looking for in 2010 and 2012 is hope for change, and it seems like the democrats have not given us either so the republicans will have an even shot at regaining some foothold.
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Old 01-17-2010, 08:33 AM   #12
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The democrats are in trouble because they have made some major errors in political judgement. Republicans need to pay attention. This is a learning opportunity.

The decision to run a centerist sounding campaign and lead people to believe that Obama would right the wrongs in Washington was first. People do not react well to being misled. Essentially they bought a product that didn't function when they got it home. Don't mislead voters.

Second they misread their base of voters. They moved away from old line conservative democrats. Those older Americans who are generally pretty socially responsible and maintain a desire for fiscal responsibility. They moved away from people who desire a strong America that leads through effective diplomacy that puts American values first but understands we have to have the will to do what is right for the US not delegate our interests to the UN. And the majority of voters understand we need allies and allies need us and you do not throw your allies under the bus for a short term popularity hit.

They failed to understand that people are generally pretty common sense. By shifting the party/country to the the support of groups and organizations that stand for ideas and policy that is not supported by the general public they have caused further division in the party. They chose to align with ACORN, SEIU, the environmental fringes and others that make many people very uncomfortable. The republicans can learn here as well.

They over read their mandate and power. Instead of selling the people on approaches they could employ on the issues they picked, they went on a power rush to force into place bad legislation. What they didnt understand is that people are smarter than they thought. They chose to go it alone. They will posture that the republicans never wanted to participate. But the voter is smart enough to see this was grade school recess on a big scale. The 6th graders picked the team, made the rules, owned the ball and they told the first graders they could play but couldn't be on the team and would not have any say. It wont work, it never has, it never will. Pure partisanship is destructive and divisive.

This was made worse by the priorities they set for themselves.

People need Jobs. They took the tact of using government to create jobs ignoring that business, large and small are job creators. Government can only facillitate. They demonized business instead of finding ways to work with it. People go to work in the morning working either for themselves or for a business. Every employee knows if the business is good they have ajob. If the business goes down, they lose jobs. If you spend your working time working for business and every night on tv the news is businees is evil....add it up. We all know where our bread is buttered..and it aint washington.

People needed a feeling we were secure. They demonized the people who provide the security by attacking publicly the CIA, military, and justice department.

People need relief from imposed expences especially in tough times. They pushed Cap and Trade, a tax, that impacts the entire country and based it on the global warming claims that people generally dont believe and on the whole green movement that people find a bit hard to accept.

And last they had a myopic view of health care reform that instead of doing in pieces that were supportrd and understood, they took on the entire HC system and came out with an unsaleable product of bloat and control that people fear.

Being lied to and having policy forced down from the top and showing total disregard for the electorate will fail every time. The lesson is clear for the republicans as well.

The most devestating thing they have done is to take a generation of voters who bought the Omama magic and have dashed their vision to pieces. Those voters will be disillusioned for some time to come and will not be willing to be had again. We saw this same thing with Nixon in 72. Many Nixon voters were new to the process only to have to live through Watergate. And the older voters who have always voted democrat will be nearly impossible to bring back.

The real question is when the smoke clears, who will be left in the democrat party?
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Old 01-17-2010, 09:05 AM   #13
MarcBulger MarcBulger is offline
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I want a fed gov that only spends 25% of my taxes, and a State Gov that spends 75% that is the only way you will ever have a say in Big Govt....I want States to Run Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, and other social programs. That way I have a larger say it what happens to my tax dollar..Never going to happen.
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Old 01-17-2010, 09:18 AM   #14
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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The democrats are in trouble because they have made some major errors in political judgement. Republicans need to pay attention. This is a learning opportunity.
I think some are, but not the leadership necessarily. Leadership in both parties is corrupt. You see this in the same Ds and Rs paying off Wall street and spending money. The R leadership still trying some of the same old dirty tricks on those Rs that won't toe the line. Even Brown voted to increase government spending by $7.2 billion over a nine year period when he was in Mass govt.

Anyhow, like I posted during the prez election, Obama getting elected just may wake up the R party at least somewhat for some change there. Perhaps leading to another RR type just as it happened after Carter. But if you look at their record they've done nothing to roll back the size of govt. It's just tax cuts while spending still increases. Some of these Rs are just posturing as the Ds did for re-access to power. Need to know who that is.
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Old 01-17-2010, 09:46 AM   #15
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Quote:
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I think some are, but not the leadership necessarily. Leadership in both parties is corrupt. You see this in the same Ds and Rs paying off Wall street and spending money. The R leadership still trying some of the same old dirty tricks on those Rs that won't toe the line. Even Brown voted to increase government spending by $7.2 billion over a nine year period when he was in Mass govt.

Anyhow, like I posted during the prez election, Obama getting elected just may wake up the R party at least somewhat for some change there. Perhaps leading to another RR type just as it happened after Carter. But if you look at their record they've done nothing to roll back the size of govt. It's just tax cuts while spending still increases. Some of these Rs are just posturing as the Ds did for re-access to power. Need to know who that is.
I dont believe that everyone and evrything in either party is corrupt or that either cannot find their way back to good governing. Maybe the good to come from thiis administration is a return to Americanism and the focus on what makes us strong and a vibrant growing country, Time will tell but i tend to be an optomist.

Parties are made up of voters and voter blocks. The leadership will reflect the beliefs and voting patterns of the members..members is a loose term since there really is no membership as such.

The candidates are for the most part picked through elections and primaries. So who runs as a republican is not the leaderships decision, its the voters choice. I believe we will see far more involvement by the voter this time around and will see a different sort of candidte picked to run on the republican ticket.

That is how internal change in direction occurs.
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