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Old 01-27-2010, 11:12 AM  
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
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Old 04-30-2010, 01:12 PM   #601
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Originally Posted by irishjayhawk View Post
I still don't really see what this has to do with his arguments. Pretty much nothing.



H246 is independent of HTML5.
It has nothing to do with the core argument, just disgusting to see him use webkit to claim apple contributes to open source...

H264 is just a codec... without html5 to deliver the video... it doesn't do anything.
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Old 04-30-2010, 01:54 PM   #602
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
It has nothing to do with the core argument, just disgusting to see him use webkit to claim apple contributes to open source...

H264 is just a codec... without html5 to deliver the video... it doesn't do anything.
So he didn't really lie in the write up?

Also: H264 exists without HTML5...
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Old 04-30-2010, 01:55 PM   #603
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Old 04-30-2010, 02:13 PM   #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishjayhawk View Post
So he didn't really lie in the write up?

Also: H264 exists without HTML5...
You don't follow along very well...

he LIED at least twice... ONE in claiming webkit as apple's innovation

and TWO in claiming that "almost all this video" was available through h264.. it ISN'T and the reason it isn't is because h264 is simply a codec that requires a delivery system... like html5 or FLASH(which has supported h264 for ages now) or each site has to deliver a proprietary app... yay!

If he had said... "almost all this video" will one day be available without the need of Flash.. he would be right... but it IS NOT YET.
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Old 04-30-2010, 02:32 PM   #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
You don't follow along very well...

he LIED at least twice... ONE in claiming webkit as apple's innovation

and TWO in claiming that "almost all this video" was available through h264.. it ISN'T and the reason it isn't is because h264 is simply a codec that requires a delivery system... like html5 or FLASH(which has supported h264 for ages now) or each site has to deliver a proprietary app... yay!

If he had said... "almost all this video" will one day be available without the need of Flash.. he would be right... but it IS NOT YET.
So one of the "lies" is about something that isn't the issue at hand. Got it.

Second "lie" is only a lie because you deem it so. I could equally say he's saying the truth, but it wouldn't mean much, just as your assertion that he is lying.

I realize H264 is a codec that requires a delivery system. That delivery system being HTML4 - THE CURRENT VERSION. So, he is not lying.
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Old 04-30-2010, 03:41 PM   #606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishjayhawk View Post
So one of the "lies" is about something that isn't the issue at hand. Got it.

Second "lie" is only a lie because you deem it so. I could equally say he's saying the truth, but it wouldn't mean much, just as your assertion that he is lying.

I realize H264 is a codec that requires a delivery system. That delivery system being HTML4 - THE CURRENT VERSION. So, he is not lying.
HUH? and what we have here is FAIL. HTML4 does not deliver video without a plugin (i.e. FLASH)

I WORK in this field so I really do know what I'm talking about.... my assertion actually carries some weight... oh and understanding the technologies involved helps.
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Old 04-30-2010, 04:40 PM   #607
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A quick tutorial for those not in the industry...

h264 is a video codec owned by the MPEG group.. it is NOT open source... Adobe licensed the technology years ago and integrated it into FLASH... which is the NUMBER ONE reason h264 is so popular...

Now, let's switch gears .. MS has Internet Explorer, Apple has Safari... both companies are members of MPEG LA and license h264... On the other side are the supporters of open source Mozilla Firefox and Opera... they do not have licenses and therefore support the open source alternative Ogg Theora video.

Now here is where it gets wierd... Google Chrome supports BOTH formats... and to make it even wierder... Google bought On2 Technologies... a company that makes video codecs... they made the original Theora (then called VP3) and it's likely that next month Google will release the VP8 codec as open source... if they do so... the debate over which codec will be implemented in html5 will heat back up.

This issue is far from as settled as Jobs seems to indicate... Apple and Microsoft are setting themselves up against the open source community .. it will all come down to Google, in my opinion. If they release VP8 AND switch youtube over to VP8 AND throw their weight behind it as the html5 standard... then Apple and Microsoft are screwed unless they follow along.

As I have stated many times... this thing is a mess and far from being resolved.
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Old 04-30-2010, 08:45 PM   #608
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Old 04-30-2010, 09:53 PM   #609
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Stepping into the Flash debate just hours after Apple CEO Steve Jobs issued his "Thoughts on Flash" letter discussing why Apple has elected not to include support for Adobe's Flash on its iPhone OS devices, Microsoft general manager for Internet Explorer Dean Hachamovitch noted this his company is throwing its weight behind the H.264 standard promoted by Apple for future HTML5 video content.
The future of the web is HTML5. Microsoft is deeply engaged in the HTML5 process with the W3C. HTML5 will be very important in advancing rich, interactive web applications and site design. The HTML5 specification describes video support without specifying a particular video format. We think H.264 is an excellent format. In its HTML5 support, IE9 will support playback of H.264 video only.

Hachamovitch goes on to acknowledge that video on the web today is primarily Flash-based, and while Microsoft continues to work with Adobe on Flash, he also notes that it carries some issues related to reliability, security, and performance.

Hachamovitch's comments suggest that while Microsoft recognizes the dominant role played by Flash, it is also looking ahead to the future, where it sees a much more prominent role for HTML5 and H.264, a view shared and being pushed forward by Apple in its decisions and communications.
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:30 PM   #610
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
HUH? and what we have here is FAIL. HTML4 does not deliver video without a plugin (i.e. FLASH)

I WORK in this field so I really do know what I'm talking about.... my assertion actually carries some weight... oh and understanding the technologies involved helps.
Yeah, so when I put up my .mov in H264, it will play without FLASH. If you want to tell me the .mov or quicktime file is the plugin, so be it. But that doesn't undermine my point.

Users still have access to almost all the video due to this. Both because flash degrading pages and iPhone/iPad specificly made pages. Now, if you want to argue that making a page specifically for the iPad or iPhone is bad practice, so be it. But the video is available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
A quick tutorial for those not in the industry...

h264 is a video codec owned by the MPEG group.. it is NOT open source... Adobe licensed the technology years ago and integrated it into FLASH... which is the NUMBER ONE reason h264 is so popular...

Now, let's switch gears .. MS has Internet Explorer, Apple has Safari... both companies are members of MPEG LA and license h264... On the other side are the supporters of open source Mozilla Firefox and Opera... they do not have licenses and therefore support the open source alternative Ogg Theora video.

Now here is where it gets wierd... Google Chrome supports BOTH formats... and to make it even wierder... Google bought On2 Technologies... a company that makes video codecs... they made the original Theora (then called VP3) and it's likely that next month Google will release the VP8 codec as open source... if they do so... the debate over which codec will be implemented in html5 will heat back up.

This issue is far from as settled as Jobs seems to indicate... Apple and Microsoft are setting themselves up against the open source community .. it will all come down to Google, in my opinion. If they release VP8 AND switch youtube over to VP8 AND throw their weight behind it as the html5 standard... then Apple and Microsoft are screwed unless they follow along.

As I have stated many times... this thing is a mess and far from being resolved.
This actually undermines your entire point. If Flash is the "plugin" for the codec and Apple has a problem with the plugin, they don't necessarily have a problem with the codec. Thus, it could easily be a case of Apple and Microsoft conceding and allowing both of the other codecs.

Which.....dun dun dun.....

Has nothing to do with flash.
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Old 05-01-2010, 03:29 AM   #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishjayhawk View Post
Yeah, so when I put up my .mov in H264, it will play without FLASH. If you want to tell me the .mov or quicktime file is the plugin, so be it. But that doesn't undermine my point.

Users still have access to almost all the video due to this. Both because flash degrading pages and iPhone/iPad specificly made pages. Now, if you want to argue that making a page specifically for the iPad or iPhone is bad practice, so be it. But the video is available.



This actually undermines your entire point. If Flash is the "plugin" for the codec and Apple has a problem with the plugin, they don't necessarily have a problem with the codec. Thus, it could easily be a case of Apple and Microsoft conceding and allowing both of the other codecs.

Which.....dun dun dun.....

Has nothing to do with flash.
Wow! you have once again missed the point...

I am NOT a big FLASH fan... but I am a REALIST not a ****ing pillowbitergoty apple fan boy which you are proving yourself to be... hey, do you NOW know that h264 is not served thru html4??? JESUS dude, you can't even admit that you didn't know SHITE about the basic tech involved...

You are clueless on the reality of the situation... wanna make a bet on V8? I'd say it's 50/50 on google BURYING this point and making apple their bitch... comes down to whether they want to or not....

as JOBS said.. youtube is 40% of all web video(also false but lets go with the **** you are dumb enough to believe) ... if so, google can make 40% of all web video unaccessible to apple in one stroke....
I'm sorry but I may be done arguing with you until you ACTUALLY get a ****ing clue as to the tech involved... YEP.. h264 (or any video codec) is served thru HTM4(get a clue)... dude, don't argue points that are told to you, argue point you may actually KNOW...

I actually hate to be so insulting, but you are insulting me by arguing a point that you really have NO STANDING on... you are embarrassing yourself at this point.
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Old 05-01-2010, 03:34 AM   #612
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[quote=irishjayhawk;6728892]Yeah, so when I put up my .mov in H264, it will play without FLASH. If you want to tell me the .mov or quicktime file is the plugin, so be it. But that doesn't undermine my point.

Users still have access to almost all the video due to this. Both because flash degrading pages and iPhone/iPad specificly made pages. Now, if you want to argue that making a page specifically for the iPad or iPhone is bad practice, so be it. But the video is available.[quote]

Ok, going back to address your "points"... NO THEY ****ING DON'T HAVE ACCESS... CHRIST... take a class instead of listening to me or anyone elses propoganda... seriously, LEARN the tech... it's pretty obvious you are clueless at this point.

THE VIDEO IS NOT AVAIALABLE... as I have offered thrice before.. make the bet with me if you want to back your BULLSHIT up ... and I will show you.
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Old 05-01-2010, 03:38 AM   #613
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Originally Posted by Silock View Post
Stepping into the Flash debate just hours after Apple CEO Steve Jobs issued his "Thoughts on Flash" letter discussing why Apple has elected not to include support for Adobe's Flash on its iPhone OS devices, Microsoft general manager for Internet Explorer Dean Hachamovitch noted this his company is throwing its weight behind the H.264 standard promoted by Apple for future HTML5 video content.
The future of the web is HTML5. Microsoft is deeply engaged in the HTML5 process with the W3C. HTML5 will be very important in advancing rich, interactive web applications and site design. The HTML5 specification describes video support without specifying a particular video format. We think H.264 is an excellent format. In its HTML5 support, IE9 will support playback of H.264 video only.

Hachamovitch goes on to acknowledge that video on the web today is primarily Flash-based, and while Microsoft continues to work with Adobe on Flash, he also notes that it carries some issues related to reliability, security, and performance.

Hachamovitch's comments suggest that while Microsoft recognizes the dominant role played by Flash, it is also looking ahead to the future, where it sees a much more prominent role for HTML5 and H.264, a view shared and being pushed forward by Apple in its decisions and communications.
FUTURE= 12 to 18 months or more

h.264= proprietary... and if google releases V8 then maybe not even worth mentioning.... MOZILLA and OPERA won't play ball... REGARDLESS.

put your money on Apple and MS versus EVERYONE ELSE... sorry I will go with whoever GOOGLE sides with... which we don't know for another 2 month who that is....
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Old 05-01-2010, 08:41 AM   #614
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Wow! you have once again missed the point...

I am NOT a big FLASH fan... but I am a REALIST not a ****ing pillowbitery apple fan boy which you are proving yourself to be... hey, do you NOW know that h264 is not served thru html4??? JESUS dude, you can't even admit that you didn't know SHITE about the basic tech involved...
Actually, my points are still in tact. For example, H264 being served thru html4 was a point about you making a false point: HTML5 is needed to serve h264 content. That's not true as HTML4 can support H264 videos. The fact it needs a plugin is superfluous.

And you've been defending flash the whole time. That's been the argument.

Quote:
You are clueless on the reality of the situation... wanna make a bet on V8? I'd say it's 50/50 on google BURYING this point and making apple their bitch... comes down to whether they want to or not....
At this point, V8 is meaningless. It doesn't have YT support, it doesn't have much ground in the web.

Quote:
as JOBS said.. youtube is 40% of all web video(also false but lets go with the **** you are dumb enough to believe) ... if so, google can make 40% of all web video unaccessible to apple in one stroke....
Please go cite your "false" assertions. Not that I believe 40% figure, but all you ever do is say "oh that's false" without actually backing anything up. Kinda like your "Jobs lies through the whole thing".


Quote:
I'm sorry but I may be done arguing with you until you ACTUALLY get a ****ing clue as to the tech involved... YEP.. h264 (or any video codec) is served thru HTM4(get a clue)... dude, don't argue points that are told to you, argue point you may actually KNOW...
That's my goddamn point. Flash is irrelevant. Which is what Jobs is arguing. And that's why he says most video can be displayed on the iPad/iPhone.

Thank you for finally seeing my whole point.

Quote:
I actually hate to be so insulting, but you are insulting me by arguing a point that you really have NO STANDING on... you are embarrassing yourself at this point.
What was my point as you saw it?
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Old 05-01-2010, 08:49 AM   #615
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[quote=AustinChief;6729162][quote=irishjayhawk;6728892]Yeah, so when I put up my .mov in H264, it will play without FLASH. If you want to tell me the .mov or quicktime file is the plugin, so be it. But that doesn't undermine my point.

Users still have access to almost all the video due to this. Both because flash degrading pages and iPhone/iPad specificly made pages. Now, if you want to argue that making a page specifically for the iPad or iPhone is bad practice, so be it. But the video is available./
Quote:

Ok, going back to address your "points"... NO THEY ****ING DON'T HAVE ACCESS... CHRIST... take a class instead of listening to me or anyone elses propoganda... seriously, LEARN the tech... it's pretty obvious you are clueless at this point.

THE VIDEO IS NOT AVAIALABLE... as I have offered thrice before.. make the bet with me if you want to back your BULLSHIT up ... and I will show you.
What are you talking about?

I have an iPod Touch. I know that many sites have flash degrading mechanisms or simply design a site knowing Apple doesn't allow flash. Therefore, the customers have the video.


Currently, I'm uploading an old video of mine. It's in H264 and it will be in on a webpage that isn't HTML5 nor is it in flash. Ergo, my ipod Touch will be able to play it, as anyone's iPad.
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