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Old 01-27-2010, 11:12 AM  
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
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Old 05-03-2010, 08:26 AM   #646
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
You won't give up even when you don't know shite about the subject... that is a ****ING DIRECT LINK.. how many sites want to go back to 1996 and throwing direct links to raw video online???
Yet the direct link has nothing to do with it. It's neither flash nor HTML5, which is what you're talking about. I could throw up a simple HTML4 page right now and it would STILL WORK.


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yes it can view h264 video, never argued that.. but MOST SITES DON'T OFFER video up in HTML5(yet, and maybe never for h264 if the standard goes VP8) or as a direct link like a high school kid might.
Yes, they do. HTML5 is irrelevant currently. The only reason it's relevant is a reason why they aren't allowing flash. Even if it's not fully here, they can still get the videos.

Youtube, CNN, WSJ, NYT - videos all available on the iPhone and iPad without HTML5 or Flash. I don't see why you keep insisting it's otherwise.

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You're out of your element here Donnie.

I'm going to go ahead and tour my regular pattern of sites with FLASH off and HTML5 enabled (Chrome) and see how much it sucks... do you need screenshots???
We must be arguing two different points then. First, we were talking about HTML5 and how it is replacing flash - which is true, I think we agree. Second, we talked about how fast this would occur. Third, we talked about the lack of flash on the web now and how Apple will/will not suffer without allowing flash on their devices. Fourth, I posted Steve Jobs Thoughts on Flash defending his move. Fifth, you called him a liar and I said bullshit. And we're there now. You've called him a liar and pointed out things in his write up that weren't true. Then we've discussed them.

You're entire claim has be the iPad and iPhone couldn't play the majority of the video on the web like Jobs claims. I've demonstrated that's just not true. And it's not because of flash OR HTML5 - both of which you keep bringing up. Flash IS dying and HTML5 is coming; HTML5 is replacing flash but flash is irrelevant CURRENTLY.

I have flash blocked on Safari with FlashBlock. It's generally a better experience. There are no doubt times when I need flash. The majority I don't.
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Old 05-03-2010, 12:50 PM   #647
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Originally Posted by irishjayhawk View Post
Youtube, CNN, WSJ, NYT - videos all available on the iPhone and iPad without HTML5 or Flash. I don't see why you keep insisting it's otherwise.
WHAT??? YouTube, CNN, NYT all use HTML5 to serve video to an ipad

If you even halfway understood the underlying architecture, you wouldn't be making these basic mistakes....

Let's move one... try going to Hulu.com, TV.com, ABC.com, Fox.com, Comedycentral.com, mlb.com, kcchiefs.com, kcroyals.com...

How is the video? MORE IMPORTANTLY, how are the NFL, NHL, UEFA, NCAA gamecasts?

What? Oh you can buy an app for each of those... and soon an app for Hulu, and an app for...

Have fun helping Apple rid the world of quality FREE content.

Even if those apps(MOST of which don't exist yet) were free... what a complete pain in the ass.

(and direct links? get real, we are talking professional websites...)
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:12 PM   #648
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ABC has an app for its video, as does TV.com, which are both FREE, and Hulu is making one.
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:17 PM   #649
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:24 PM   #650
irishjayhawk irishjayhawk is offline
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Originally Posted by Silock View Post
ABC has an app for its video, as does TV.com, which are both FREE, and Hulu is making one.
Exactly.
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:29 PM   #651
irishjayhawk irishjayhawk is offline
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Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
Apple fan boy is funny to watch.
This is less Apple fanboyism than it is someone being dense and my SWOTI syndrome kicking in.

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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
WHAT??? YouTube, CNN, NYT all use HTML5 to serve video to an ipad

If you even halfway understood the underlying architecture, you wouldn't be making these basic mistakes....

Let's move one... try going to Hulu.com, TV.com, ABC.com, Fox.com, Comedycentral.com, mlb.com, kcchiefs.com, kcroyals.com...
He didn't say ALL video. For every site that has no substitute, there's one that does.

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How is the video? MORE IMPORTANTLY, how are the NFL, NHL, UEFA, NCAA gamecasts?
MLB's app is superb. ESPN's app is superb. ESPN's web game cast is superb on the Touch.

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What? Oh you can buy an app for each of those... and soon an app for Hulu, and an app for...
Buy as in free, most of the time.

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Have fun helping Apple rid the world of quality FREE content.


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Even if those apps(MOST of which don't exist yet) were free... what a complete pain in the ass.

(and direct links? get real, we are talking professional websites...)
Oh, so now it's just a pain in the ass to download an app? And, I guess, if first you don't succeed, bitch about trivial things like that.

You continue to miss the point. Direct link or not, the video is playable on the touch/iPhone/iPad. It would be even if I put it in a simple HTML4 page or a wordpress blog. If CNN put it on their website, it would play. That's been my whole point which is contrary to your inane point about the iPad being irrelevant until HTML5 comes out. Obviously, it isn't.

Also, an app for each site system does have it's drawbacks but it also has a very big upside: UI advantages, offline processing and storage, consistency, design, etc etc.

So, basically, you're points are moot. Jobs hasn't lied about anything in his write up. The iPad isn't outdated yet. The iPad isn't dependent on HTML5. The iPad IS useful without HTML5.
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:45 PM   #652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishjayhawk View Post
This is less Apple fanboyism than it is someone being dense and my SWOTI syndrome kicking in.

He didn't say ALL video. For every site that has no substitute, there's one that does.

MLB's app is superb. ESPN's app is superb. ESPN's web game cast is superb on the Touch.

Buy as in free, most of the time.


Oh, so now it's just a pain in the ass to download an app? And, I guess, if first you don't succeed, bitch about trivial things like that.

You continue to miss the point. Direct link or not, the video is playable on the touch/iPhone/iPad. It would be even if I put it in a simple HTML4 page or a wordpress blog. If CNN put it on their website, it would play. That's been my whole point which is contrary to your inane point about the iPad being irrelevant until HTML5 comes out. Obviously, it isn't.

Also, an app for each site system does have it's drawbacks but it also has a very big upside: UI advantages, offline processing and storage, consistency, design, etc etc.

So, basically, you're points are moot. Jobs hasn't lied about anything in his write up. The iPad isn't outdated yet. The iPad isn't dependent on HTML5. The iPad IS useful without HTML5.
Wow, so even though you don't actually understand the tech AND you make FALSE statements like "YouTube, Cnn, etc" don't use HTML5.. you continue to be obtuse.

So out of MILLIONS of sites with video.. Let's say I visit 100 every month... I'm going to download 100 apps to use to view their video? That is ridiculous and you know it.

My point IS and always has been... Jobs lied by saying that MOST video was already available...

Just because most video COULD be available if everyone uses html5 or provides an app or provides a direct link (which is inane).. doesn't make it so. And you are DEAD wrongin saying " For every site that has no substitute, there's one that does" maybe for the 5 sites YOU visit but that simply isn't true for the ENTIRE web.

I think the crux of your argument comes to this line... " If (insert any website) put it on their website, it would play" (in reference to direct links of h264 video in html4) .. yes it WOULD but no site wirth a damn ever WOULD... so aren't you the one who loves to bandy about the term "vaporware"... until the MAJORITY of sites switch to HTML5, or create an app or decide to go FULL RETARD and put a direct link up... you are wrong... sorry but them's the ACTUAL FACTS... whether you want them to be or not.
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:46 PM   #653
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You gonna man up and admit that you were once again dead wrong by saing YouTube, NYT and CNN don't use html5 for video to ipads?
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:56 PM   #654
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
You gonna man up and admit that you were once again dead wrong by saing YouTube, NYT and CNN don't use html5 for video to ipads?
To my knowledge, YT doesn't. Unless their app is using HTML5 in the background.

On the actual web, HTML5 has to be enabled in your preferences on YT. Either way, it really doesn't matter.

NYT and CNN I don't know and wouldn't really know how to find out, honestly. NYT has their own app, so HTML5 is meaningless to me in light of that.
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Old 05-03-2010, 04:01 PM   #655
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Wow, so even though you don't actually understand the tech AND you make FALSE statements like "YouTube, Cnn, etc" don't use HTML5.. you continue to be obtuse.
I said YouTube didn't use HTML5? When?

Quote:
So out of MILLIONS of sites with video.. Let's say I visit 100 every month... I'm going to download 100 apps to use to view their video? That is ridiculous and you know it.
No, and that's not the point. You've constantly said the iPad will only truly be usable when HTML5 is dominant. This is false.

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My point IS and always has been... Jobs lied by saying that MOST video was already available...
No, he didn't. It is available.

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Just because most video COULD be available if everyone uses html5 or provides an app or provides a direct link (which is inane).. doesn't make it so. And you are DEAD wrongin saying " For every site that has no substitute, there's one that does" maybe for the 5 sites YOU visit but that simply isn't true for the ENTIRE web.
And the same hyperbole from you isn't true: h264 isn't playable without flash and HTML5 which leaves very few sites delivering video to the iPad.

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I think the crux of your argument comes to this line... " If (insert any website) put it on their website, it would play" (in reference to direct links of h264 video in html4) .. yes it WOULD but no site wirth a damn ever WOULD...
You continue to miss the point. You've said repeatedly that to play H264 videos you'd need HTML5 or Flash - one of which isn't here yet and one of which is not allowed on the iPad. This is what you've said. Do you want me to quote you like 1000 times in this thread saying similar things?

Quote:
so aren't you the one who loves to bandy about the term "vaporware"... until the MAJORITY of sites switch to HTML5, or create an app or decide to go FULL RETARD and put a direct link up... you are wrong... sorry but them's the ACTUAL FACTS... whether you want them to be or not.


Continue to ignore the fact that non-HTML5 sites can serve h264 video without flash. Please, continue to ignore it. Direct link is irrelevant.
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Old 05-03-2010, 04:27 PM   #656
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Originally Posted by irishjayhawk View Post
You continue to miss the point. You've said repeatedly that to play H264 videos you'd need HTML5 or Flash - one of which isn't here yet and one of which is not allowed on the iPad. This is what you've said. Do you want me to quote you like 1000 times in this thread saying similar things?

Continue to ignore the fact that non-HTML5 sites can serve h264 video without flash. Please, continue to ignore it. Direct link is irrelevant.
DIRECT LINK IS IRRELEVANT.. to YOUR ARGUMENT.. are you ****ing retarded???? NO REAL SITE WOULD SERVE VIDEO LIKE THAT... that leaves HTML5 an APP or FLASH...

I am about to move this to the general board to show everyone ese what a tool you are being...

YOU SIMPLY HAVE NO ****ING CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

let's start with

A) you have no clue how a professional website is structured
B) you have no clue about even the basics of HTML5
C) you have no clue why from a business/resource perspective .. even if it gets decided that html5 will be H264... it will TAKE TIME to convert a majority of sites over... some of the big guys have the money to do so... MOST do not.

I DO THIS FOR A LIVING AND HAVE FORGOTTEN MORE ABOUT THIS THAN YOU WILL EVER KNOW... and hearing you talk out of your ass about a topic you are CLEARLY lost on is getting tedious.

If this argument is to continue I feel I'm going to have to teach you more than it is worth my time to get you up to speed to even be able to UNDERSTAND the context in which we SHOULD be speaking.

SIMPLE FACT.. watch video on ipad = APP (I have explained a million times why this is an unstainable model to have 100s of apps for all the sites I frequent) or HTML5 (not deployed enough yet to be a factor) or direct links (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... this is the one that you brought up and wow oh wow just proves that you are out of your element Donnie)
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Old 05-03-2010, 04:55 PM   #657
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
DIRECT LINK IS IRRELEVANT.. to YOUR ARGUMENT.. are you ****ing retarded???? NO REAL SITE WOULD SERVE VIDEO LIKE THAT... that leaves HTML5 an APP or FLASH...
Actually, Austin, it's irrelevant to any argument in this thread, yet you belabor the point. Here, I've taken the time to make it an embedded H264 file in a non-HTML5 page and it doesn't use flash.

http://kobrien15.webfactional.com/

Oh, look, it plays on iPod touch and iPad. Oh, look, it's not HTML5 nor is it flash. Oh, look, it's NOT A DIRECT LINK.

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I am about to move this to the general board to show everyone ese what a tool you are being...

YOU SIMPLY HAVE NO ****ING CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
Please do. I have won every point in here aside from the technical aspects (H264 being codec, rather than plugin). I have Tech Crunch on my side. I have evidence from iPad, iPod and iPhone users.

But, please, go ahead.

Quote:
let's start with

A) you have no clue how a professional website is structured
B) you have no clue about even the basics of HTML5
C) you have no clue why from a business/resource perspective .. even if it gets decided that html5 will be H264... it will TAKE TIME to convert a majority of sites over... some of the big guys have the money to do so... MOST do not.
Let's start with:

A) We haven't even talked about structure. So, how would you know if I have a clue or not.
B) Again, fact not in evidence.
C) H264 is independent of HTML5. They aren't dependent on each other. Moreover, with Apple's products being the hit they are, sites are already converting or creating degrading pages. Thus, if we accept YOUR timeline of HTML adoption, sites will be predominately caught up already.

Feel free to actually QUOTE me with regards to A and B.

Quote:
I DO THIS FOR A LIVING AND HAVE FORGOTTEN MORE ABOUT THIS THAN YOU WILL EVER KNOW... and hearing you talk out of your ass about a topic you are CLEARLY lost on is getting tedious.



Quote:
If this argument is to continue I feel I'm going to have to teach you more than it is worth my time to get you up to speed to even be able to UNDERSTAND the context in which we SHOULD be speaking.
Aside from codec vs plugin, you've really done nothing. That's all I've learned because that's all you've been right about.

Quote:
SIMPLE FACT.. watch video on ipad = APP (I have explained a million times why this is an unstainable model to have 100s of apps for all the sites I frequent) or HTML5 (not deployed enough yet to be a factor) or direct links (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... this is the one that you brought up and wow oh wow just proves that you are out of your element Donnie)
Simple fact: not true.

As evidenced by my above html page with embedded video, Silock's testimony as an iPad user, Tech Crunch's article, and a plethora of other users, writers, and developers, you are just wrong for suggesting a black and white world.

Direct links aren't even relevant to anyone's point. Especially not mine.
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Old 05-03-2010, 05:05 PM   #658
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Originally Posted by irishjayhawk View Post
Actually, Austin, it's irrelevant to any argument in this thread, yet you belabor the point. Here, I've taken the time to make it an embedded H264 file in a non-HTML5 page and it doesn't use flash.

http://kobrien15.webfactional.com/

Oh, look, it plays on iPod touch and iPad. Oh, look, it's not HTML5 nor is it flash. Oh, look, it's NOT A DIRECT LINK.

..................

As evidenced by my above html page with embedded video, Silock's testimony as an iPad user, Tech Crunch's article, and a plethora of other users, writers, and developers, you are just wrong for suggesting a black and white world.

Direct links aren't even relevant to anyone's point. Especially not mine.
And your FAIL is now complete...

Source from your page...
Code:
embedsrc="http://kobrien15.webfactional.com/DAVTAKE5.mov"
THAT my friend is a direct link. You took the raw video and linked directly to it... I understand how you got confused due to it being an "embed"... embedding IS a direct link to the file...the tag just tells the browser "hey I've linked some multimedia... use whatever plugin/native player you have built in"... but either way... you are DIRECTLY LINKING to the raw file... the only difference is that instead of an href link the file "MAY" play inline instead of spawning a seperate window/app.

NOW do you see my point? Do I need to explain why that practice was abandoned years ago?
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Old 05-03-2010, 05:13 PM   #659
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I am about to move this to the general board to show everyone ese what a tool you are being...
LOL

I won't lie; I've really been enjoying this fight.
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Old 05-03-2010, 07:25 PM   #660
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
And your FAIL is now complete...

Source from your page...
Code:
embedsrc="http://kobrien15.webfactional.com/DAVTAKE5.mov"
THAT my friend is a direct link. You took the raw video and linked directly to it... I understand how you got confused due to it being an "embed"... embedding IS a direct link to the file...the tag just tells the browser "hey I've linked some multimedia... use whatever plugin/native player you have built in"... but either way... you are DIRECTLY LINKING to the raw file... the only difference is that instead of an href link the file "MAY" play inline instead of spawning a seperate window/app.

NOW do you see my point? Do I need to explain why that practice was abandoned years ago?
So, what exactly is your point? By that logic, flash videos aren't okay because they are embedded. Just a link to a flv.

Still, it really does nothing to my points. The iPad can play the video. Neither HTML5 nor Flash was used.

In fact, what point are you trying to make? I could make it more complicated by introducing some JS to pull the video into a complicated div structure with caption and what not, similar to what NYT does (FYI, NYT's site as far as I can tell from their DOCTYPE is not HTML5 but HTML4.). But it's the same concept.
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Last edited by irishjayhawk; 05-03-2010 at 07:34 PM..
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