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Old 02-12-2010, 10:14 AM  
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Ron Paul Deceived. BucEyedPea Believed. (The Fabricated Reagan Quote)

I mentioned this in an earlier thread, but I wanted to create a separate thread where BucEyedPea can feel free to admit that Ron Paul was wrong or argue endlessly with me about it if she's still in denial without hijacking another thread.

In July of 2006, Ron Paul got up in front of the House of Representatives to speak in opposition to a resolution condemning Hezbollah's attack against Israel. In his statement, he quoted Ronald Reagan to bolster his case. I should say he "mis-quoted" Reagan though, because as it turns out the quote was FABRICATED.

Since then, BucEyedPea has repeatedly referenced that quote here on the pages of ChiefsPlanet. At last count, I've seen her reference it no less than 16 times. What's with these appeasement conservatives and their need to pretend that Ronald Reagan would have approved of their misguided, neo-isolationist message?

See my next two posts for the details.
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:22 AM   #2
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Ron Paul claimed that the Reagan quote came from Reagan's own autobiography. What he really did was collect a few out of context sentences from different pages of the book, connected them together as if they were contiguous and then fabricated the rest to drive home his dishonest point.

My original analysis of this lie was done with the hard copy from my local library. I've also checked the paperback version and found the same results. I'm sure it's available in most decent public libraries.

Here is Paul's mis-quote, color coded so the different pieces can be identified and sourced:

Quote:
"Perhaps we didn't appreciate fully enough the depth of the hatred and the complexity of the problems that made the Middle East such a jungle. Perhaps the idea of a suicide car bomber committing mass murder to gain instant entry to Paradise was so foreign to our own values and consciousness that it did not create in us the concern for the Marines' safety that it should have.

In the weeks immediately after the bombing, I believed the last thing that we should do was turn tail and leave. Yet the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics forced us to rethink our policy there. If there would be some rethinking of policy before our men die, we would be a lot better off. If that policy had changed towards more of a neutral position and neutrality, those 241 Marines would be alive today."
Dark Orange - p466 of An American Life (Reagan's autobiography)

Purple - p462 of An American Life

Dark Green - different part of p462 of An American Life

Blue - Not present in An American Life

It's bad enough to string a bunch of out-of-context, unconnected sentences together as if they were written that way, but the really outrageous dishonesty comes from the final two sentences which were apparently fabricated out of thin air and which, btw, transform the ambiguity of the early part of the quote into a clear endorsement of Ron Paul's withdraw-at-all-costs foreign policy.
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:31 AM   #3
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BucEyedPea has been loud and proud with her belief that Ronald Reagan would have approved of Ron Paul's foreign policy. I'm sure she was doing so innocently* when she repeated this Ron Paul lie 16 times here at ChiefsPlanet. It's now time for her to admit a mistake and condemn Ron Paul's dishonesty wrt to the Reagan quote.

Here are the 16 times she used Paul's false quote:
LOOKS LIKE IRAN IS CHOOSING TO TIANANMEN OPTION

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=5858805

Hamas called down the thunder

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=5334627

What is a "neo-con"?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=5303710

Spain RonPaul's it's troops out of Iraq and terror attacks against them stop, right?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=4557837

Mark Levin - Recent Speech – Excellent

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=4331024

Osama Bin Bush

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3421263

Ronald Reagan said:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=4269466

Who is Ron Paul Anyway?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=4151844

Saving face in Iraq is pretty simple if the powers that be want to do it.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=4075388

Across the pond, they're pissed

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=4053384

Iraq's parliament just voted us OUT...

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3965284

Rumsfeld: Terrorist Groups 'Actively Manipulating' U.S. Media

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3385095

Why is the U.S. afraid to fight Iran?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3354036

"Bleeding Heart Brits" agree with meme, Nightwish

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3318886

The Surge goes to Afghanistan

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=209825

AHMADINEJAD: 'Iran will deliver telling blow to global powers on Feb. 11'...

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...58#post6498658
---------------------
* Although she deserves some criticism for passing the quote off as if it were from Reagan's autobiography instead of making it clear that she was relying on 2nd hand information rather than the book itself.
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:34 AM   #4
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:39 AM   #5
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I haven't been party to this argument. But reading that:

To say "Reagan said this..." WRT to this quote/non-quote, as a paraphrase, it would seem like a very clear case of torturing the context so as to distort meaning.

To have read the quote in-line as if it had been lifted straight from the text is something I don't think you can describe as anything other than deceptive.

Maybe someone else writes his speeches, maybe this quote was just taking from a dubious online source - who knows. It disappoints me because I do like Rep. Paul. Has he ever made a public statement or retraction about this?

Congrats on what seems like a well-researched and worthy coup de grace here.
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:45 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wild1 View Post
I haven't been party to this argument. But reading that:

To say "Reagan said this..." WRT to this quote/non-quote, as a paraphrase, it would seem like a very clear case of torturing the context so as to distort meaning.

To have read the quote in-line as if it had been lifted straight from the text is something I don't think you can describe as anything other than deceptive.

Maybe someone else writes his speeches, maybe this quote was just taking from a dubious online source - who knows. It disappoints me because I do like Rep. Paul. Has he ever made a public statement or retraction about this?

Congrats on what seems like a well-researched and worthy coup de grace here.
I like Ron Paul too. Before the GWoT drove a wedge between us, Ron Paul was by far my favorite Congressman. I still like almost everything about him but his foreign policy positions.

I've looked on the internet for the quote in an effort to either find a justification for it or a critique of it and have found nothing. The only places I find this quote are in the Lew Rockwell text of his Congressional statement and on message boards or commentary sections of articles where his disciples (or others with like minds on foreign policy) spread the rumor.
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:52 AM   #7
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I've got a theory about what happened here, but I want BucEyedPea to admit that the quote is false before I try to bail Ron Paul out a little bit.
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:55 AM   #8
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pssstttt Ronald Reagan raised taxes too...
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:01 AM   #9
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:32 AM   #10
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:49 AM   #11
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:53 AM   #12
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Nice job on the research, pat. I've always felt that the similarities between Ronald Reagan's beliefs and Ron Paul's beliefs are exaggerated. On fiscal issues I think Ron Paul is basically a much more extreme version of Reagan. On foreign policy I don't see them as that similar at all.
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Nice job on the research, pat. I've always felt that the similarities between Ronald Reagan's beliefs and Ron Paul's beliefs are exaggerated. On fiscal issues I think Ron Paul is basically a much more extreme version of Reagan. On foreign policy I don't see them as that similar at all.
Tremendously exaggerated.
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Nice job on the research, pat. I've always felt that the similarities between Ronald Reagan's beliefs and Ron Paul's beliefs are exaggerated. On fiscal issues I think Ron Paul is basically a much more extreme version of Reagan. On foreign policy I don't see them as that similar at all.
That's pretty much where I'm at too.
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:21 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
pssstttt Ronald Reagan raised taxes too...
How ironic. In a thread about taking things out of context in order to be deceptive, you make a bullshit post like that.

Reagan was a NET tax cutter by a wide margin. To imply otherwise is dishonest.
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