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Old 03-17-2010, 08:33 AM  
petegz28 petegz28 is online now
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Kucinich to Switch Health Vote to ‘Yes’ After Lobbying by Obama

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-by-obama.html



We are one step closer to being bent over and pounded for higher costs and higher unemployment.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:09 PM   #2
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:19 PM   #3
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Did you REALLY think he was going to vote no?
And all it took was a ride on Airforce 1 amongst other bribes under the table.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:50 PM   #4
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LOL

But I thought Kucinich was the voice of Liberal Purism!

Yes, it seems Democrats are slowly coming around to the understanding that defeating this bill only slows down better reform in the future, rather than improves it.

It's hilarious that it's taken them this long.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
LOL

But I thought Kucinich was the voice of Liberal Purism!

Yes, it seems Democrats are slowly coming around to the understanding that defeating this bill only slows down better reform in the future, rather than improves it.

It's hilarious that it's taken them this long.
Yeah. Higher premiums is better for everyone.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
LOL

But I thought Kucinich was the voice of Liberal Purism!

Yes, it seems Democrats are slowly coming around to the understanding that defeating this bill only slows down better reform in the future, rather than improves it.

It's hilarious that it's taken them this long.
"better reform in the future"

You mean nationalized healthcare?
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:56 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by SNR View Post
"better reform in the future"

You mean nationalized healthcare?
It isn't even that, SNR. It is "mandated health care". The only thing national about it is the law that mandates you buy health insurance.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:58 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Yeah. Higher premiums is better for everyone.
If my pants were pulled down this aggressively I'd probably try to change the subject too.

I was told that Kucinich was the voice of liberal purism, and that the principled opposition of Dennis P. Kucinich was surely a signal to all liberals that they have strayed too far from the pack.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:59 PM   #9
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR View Post
"better reform in the future"

You mean nationalized healthcare?
I mean single-payer, nationalized healthcare insurance. I'm agnostic on nationalized healthcare.
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Old 03-17-2010, 01:48 PM   #10
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He's toast. He's lost any shred of credibility he had with the progressives. It was waning anyway but now he's lost all of it.
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Old 03-17-2010, 01:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I mean single-payer, nationalized healthcare insurance. I'm agnostic on nationalized healthcare.
Do you pay for health insurance now? Are you happy with the quality of your current health coverage?
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:50 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I mean single-payer, nationalized healthcare insurance. I'm agnostic on nationalized healthcare.
So the public option, then.

You do realize that the public option WILL morph into nationalized healthcare, right? As soon as problems start to occur and funding the public option becomes a problem, we'll scratch it all and demand that the government just pay for everything.

I haven't seen any change in the trend of the changing American economic landscape to think otherwise.
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Old 03-17-2010, 03:02 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by SNR View Post
So the public option, then.

You do realize that the public option WILL morph into nationalized healthcare, right? As soon as problems start to occur and funding the public option becomes a problem, we'll scratch it all and demand that the government just pay for everything.

I haven't seen any change in the trend of the changing American economic landscape to think otherwise.

SLIPPERY SLOPE! SLIPPERY SLOPE! AUGH! AUGH! YOUR ARGUING A SLIPPERY SLOPE!
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Old 03-17-2010, 03:03 PM   #14
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Of course, slippery slope is exactly the strategy, and Direckshun admits as much.
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Old 03-17-2010, 03:21 PM   #15
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
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So the public option, then.
No! Sweet jesus.

There's been OVER A YEAR of this debate. How are you not getting this yet?

One more time, with feeling:

national coops/interstate exchanges = current bill proposes this, features no government plans other than expansions of medicaid, but groups the uninsured into pools of millions who can bargain for better premiums, as well as selling plans across state lines.

public option = HR 3200 proposed this, features a government plan to compete with private plans, is a nationalized option but not nationalized healthcare insurance, because it's only covering those who opt for it.

single payer = nationalized healthcare insurance, preferrence of liberals like myself and the current Canadian system, private companies essentially offer gold-plated plans but other than that, the government runs the entire healthcare insurance industry, but not the healthcare provider industry

socialized medicine/healthcare = this is nationalized healthcare, in that the government runs not only the insurance industry but the medical provider industry, the government doesn't just pay all the doctors, they employ all the doctors, this is used in the UK and Scandinavia.

Now, I believe the current plan can be used as a bridge to single payer (i.e. nationalized healthcare INSURANCE) eventually. It can directly lead to that, although it would probably take a couple generations. Nationalized healthcare doesn't follow as logically from all of this as nationalized healthcare insurance does.

I may have to brief you on the nuclear option later.
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