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Old 03-21-2010, 10:35 PM  
chris chris is offline
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This Bill is "Moral"? What are you smoking?

I'm in favor of this bill....as pre-existing conditions and getting ill should be covered. I would have paid for it it differently, but that is besides the point.

HOWEVER, I find it comical when several posters state this bill is "moral" when THEIR personal or business taxes are not impacted.

Always easy to spend other people's money. "Atlas shrugged"

My wife is on a business trip to the UK. She asked if we should start looking for a house up by Bath. I said no as the UK is more screwed up than the USA. Now Scotland...maybe.
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Old 03-21-2010, 10:53 PM   #2
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I never said anything specifically about this bill but I do believe that it is moral to ensure that everyone has access to health care. And that is why I supported health care reform. However, I am not happy with this bill. I think there is too much special interest influence making it more costly than it needed to be.

Single-payer would have been my preference. That said it is probably better than allowing health care to continue down the path it was on.
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Old 03-21-2010, 10:56 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penchief View Post
I never said anything specifically about this bill but I do believe that it is moral to ensure that everyone has access to health care. And that is why I supported health care reform. However, I am not happy with this bill. I think there is too much special interest influence making it more costly than it needed to be.

Single-payer would have been my preference. That said it is probably better than allowing health care to continue down the path it was on.
Actually single-payer is the only legal way to enact a "mandate". If you believe in the Constitution that is.
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Old 03-21-2010, 10:57 PM   #4
chris chris is offline
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Originally Posted by penchief View Post
I never said anything specifically about this bill but I do believe that it is moral to ensure that everyone has access to health care. And that is why I supported health care reform. However, I am not happy with this bill. I think there is too much special interest influence making it more costly than it needed to be.

Single-payer would have been my preference. That said it is probably better than allowing health care to continue down the path it was on.
thank you. I could have not said it any better!

To show my ignorance: why didn't they set up it up as single payer?
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Old 03-21-2010, 11:02 PM   #5
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To show my ignorance: why didn't they set up it up as single payer?
They don't have the votes.
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Old 03-21-2010, 11:02 PM   #6
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Because single-payer would have meant we were a bunch of commies. And Lord knows we can't have that!

Plus, no way the powers that be would have allowed single-payer to pass because they would probalby have been cut of the process. The insurance companies needed their piece of the pie.
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Old 03-21-2010, 11:48 PM   #7
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Bottom line: It comes down to whether you believe in God who gives rights or believe that there is no God and only the Govt can give rights. Apparently Direckshun and Penchief belief "healthcare" is a right which they believe the Fed Govt gives rights as opposed to God. Govt is their God and they are proud of it!!!

Me personally, healthcare is not a right, it is a good/service and it should be left to the free people of a free society to give charitable donations to help those who can't pay NOT unConstitutionally forced on all of us to pay for not only care but pay fines if we choose not to pay for govt healthcare. How is that Constitutional??
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:15 AM   #8
Jenson71 Jenson71 is offline
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Originally Posted by sportsshrink View Post
Bottom line: It comes down to whether you believe in God who gives rights or believe that there is no God and only the Govt can give rights. Apparently Direckshun and Penchief belief "healthcare" is a right which they believe the Fed Govt gives rights as opposed to God. Govt is their God and they are proud of it!!!
Wow, okay. Alright, let's say health care isn't a right. What if we want health care legislation making it a privilege. Now what? Are we heathens or are we unAmerican?
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:31 AM   #9
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Wow, okay. Alright, let's say health care isn't a right. What if we want health care legislation making it a privilege. Now what? Are we heathens or are we unAmerican?
Health care ISN'T a Right. No need to pretend. And as of tonight it is now a mandate.
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:47 AM   #10
Chiefshrink Chiefshrink is offline
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Wow, okay. Alright, let's say health care isn't a right. What if we want health care legislation making it a privilege. Now what? Are we heathens or are we unAmerican?
What is amazing is that 'LIFE' is only important to liberals when they can get into your wallet for their end game of socialism for total control of this country. And in this case, they got the best of both worlds coming out of our wallets for both abortion and univeral healthcare for all. This so-called executive order by Obama is a farce as the Catholic church has said and I am not Catholic either.

Sure healthcare legislation that preserves our Constitution and the liberties and freedoms afforded by this beautiful document ever written next to the Bible of course. But not healthcare legislation that sees our Constitution as nothing but "negative liberties" as quoted by our "Uncle Obama" who feels that the Constitution is flawed as I am sure you, and other libs agree as to what the Constitution can't do to you. Obama feels that the Constitution should redistribute wealth, PERIOD. That my friend is STEEEEEEEEEALING!!

When a society embraces a govt that allows the poor to be comfortable being poor, it makes it very difficult if not impossible for the poor to have any incentive to be a productive responsible citizen in that society and eventually that society or country for that matter eventually is doomed for bankruptcy and tyranny(e.g. extending unemployment benefits).
Bottom line Jenson: You want something you must pay for it YOURSELF and libs have "ALWAYS" enjoyed having others pay for them "ALWAYS" expecting something for nothing and "DEMANDING IT". These kind of people have "ALWAYS" been "DEADBEAT MALCONTENTS" since birth.

Like I said before many times when a free society is allowed to be truly free to pursue happiness and let Capitalism work with a moral compass intact then those who are financially successful of which there will be many which will be more charitable thus the non-profits and churches have more $$ to give to those in need. Look up Ben Franklin's first hospital he started and get back to me and you will see the blueprint of which we should be following.
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Old 03-22-2010, 01:04 AM   #11
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Like I said before many times when a free society is allowed to be truly free to pursue happiness and let Capitalism work with a moral compass intact then those who are financially successful of which there will be many which will be more charitable thus the non-profits and churches have more $$ to give to those in need. Look up Ben Franklin's first hospital he started and get back to me and you will see the blueprint of which we should be following.
We have charities. We have places that take the poor, sick and insane. I don't think that's the problem here. I think we can all agree that the problem was not that sick poor and insane people were wandering the streets. The problem was that health care costs were skyrocketing, many people did not have coverage, and many that did found it inadequate to some degree, as many were declaring bankruptcy extending from sickness or getting coverage dropped.
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Old 03-22-2010, 01:07 AM   #12
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We have charities. We have places that take the poor, sick and insane. I don't think that's the problem here. I think we can all agree that the problem was not that sick poor and insane people were wandering the streets. The problem was that health care costs were skyrocketing, many people did not have coverage, and many that did found it inadequate to some degree, as many were declaring bankruptcy extending from sickness or getting coverage dropped.
Many people? Less than 10% of the country, not counting illegals.
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Old 03-22-2010, 01:10 AM   #13
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Wow, okay. Alright, let's say health care isn't a right. What if we want health care legislation making it a privilege. Now what? Are we heathens or are we unAmerican?
i'd go with heathens...
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Old 03-22-2010, 01:10 AM   #14
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Many people? Less than 10% of the country, not counting illegals.
Well, that's 30 million Americans. That's sort of like saying not many Jews were killed in the Holocaust because it was only 4% of Central and Eastern Europe.
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Old 03-22-2010, 01:26 AM   #15
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We have charities. We have places that take the poor, sick and insane. I don't think that's the problem here. I think we can all agree that the problem was not that sick poor and insane people were wandering the streets. The problem was that health care costs were skyrocketing, many people did not have coverage, and many that did found it inadequate to some degree, as many were declaring bankruptcy extending from sickness or getting coverage dropped.
These charities will be next to nothing as our free capital economy worsens. And why are these costs going up? Obama is Alinskyizing the private sector and especially the ins cos. Demonizing them at every turn and now by law!!!

Ins cos only make 2-3% profit margin contrary to Alinsky popular belief by those who refuse to do their homework. When healthcare is not paid for then hospitals pass the cost on to the ins cos. then the ins cos. pass it on to us in higher premiums. And now we are going to insure 30 million more? Most of who are illegal immigrants and now that the bill has passed the whole country of Mexico will be making a bee line for the border.

Entitlements my friend! Entitlements are what is causing our free capitalistic society a great sickness of more and more unproductive people who become a financial burden eventually to the point of societal bankruptcy. This is what is causing rising healthcare costs not to mention very little competition among the ins cos and out of control trial lawyers who have no cap on law suits.

It is NOT the so-called "evil ins cos. or hospitals" they are just dictating what a free market says to do when there are less and less productive people in a society that is supposed to financially support more and more people on the dole you RAISE prices!! You want lower prices, create more productive people and create more competition among the ins cos.

Simple free market 101 that works except in the eyes of most libs because their agenda is to destroy capitalism and healthcare is sure-fire way to do it just look at Europe and especially the UK
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