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Old 03-22-2010, 08:51 PM  
ILChief ILChief is offline
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The whole "America hates this bill" thing being good for the GOP

While most polls, show 55-60% disapprove of the HC bill, I haven't seen one that tells WHY people disapprove. I'd say a fair amount (not most but a substantial number) of those that disapprove do so because they prefer a true single payer type system. Now if the GOP thinks those people are gonna vote for them they're out of their minds.
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Old 03-22-2010, 08:55 PM   #2
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I don't disagree with this at all. I think the right is blowing this whole thing waaaay out of proportion. People knew this was the platform, they're just pissed that it was half assed.

This place will implode if the Republicans don't take the majority back.
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Old 03-22-2010, 08:56 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts View Post
I don't disagree with this at all. I think the right is blowing this whole thing waaaay out of proportion. People knew this was the platform, they're just pissed that it was half assed.

This place will implode if the Republicans don't take the majority back.

If the old bastards in the DC lounge can live long enough to reach 2012
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:03 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by ILChief View Post
While most polls, show 55-60% disapprove of the HC bill, I haven't seen one that tells WHY people disapprove. I'd say a fair amount (not most but a substantial number) of those that disapprove do so because they prefer a true single payer type system. Now if the GOP thinks those people are gonna vote for them they're out of their minds.
That's me. I disaproved of the bill for a number of reasons. But I sure as hell won't be voting to go back to what we had before. Not regarding health care, and not regarding corpo-repbulican government.

As I was channel surfing last night I saw a poll that combined the people who approved of the bill with those who disaproved of the bill because it didn't go far enough. That number bested the number who opposed the bill because it went too far by 10 points.

I think once the all the inflammatory rhetoric and distortions start to abate somewhat we'll see that the massive outrage republicans are counting on is being exaggerated by those who are doing their best to incite that outrage.
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:37 AM   #5
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Because I like the healthcare I have now. I work my ass off to pay for it and I'm very happy with the coverage I have. Don't jack with it.

I don't think a 20 year old slacker should be forced into buying healthcare if they don't want to. What's next? Forced into buying life insurance? Forced into buying a Chevy because it's for the greater good?

I don't think an employer should be forced to pay for empoyees healthcare. If you want health insurance at your job and I don't provide it, get a different job. I shouldn't be forced to provide it to you.

I don't think you should be able to go your whole life without health insurance, then decide you want to go ahead and get it when you become ill, and insurance companies are forced to provide insurance to you. Kinda defeats the purpose of "insurance".

Mostly, I hate the expansion of government. Everything the government touches is over costly and poorly run. And more than anything, we all know where this is leading. It's just the start of transforming into a single payer system. Too many high ranking democrats, Obama and Pelosi, for instance, have already stated it's their final intention and this is just a start in moving towards that direction.
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:46 AM   #6
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This bill is an insurance bail out. Nothing more. It does nothing to make health care more affordable or improve it.
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:47 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by jjjayb View Post
Because I like the healthcare I have now. I work my ass off to pay for it and I'm very happy with the coverage I have. Don't jack with it.

I don't think a 20 year old slacker should be forced into buying healthcare if they don't want to. What's next? Forced into buying life insurance? Forced into buying a Chevy because it's for the greater good?

I don't think an employer should be forced to pay for empoyees healthcare. If you want health insurance at your job and I don't provide it, get a different job. I shouldn't be forced to provide it to you.

I don't think you should be able to go your whole life without health insurance, then decide you want to go ahead and get it when you become ill, and insurance companies are forced to provide insurance to you. Kinda defeats the purpose of "insurance".

Mostly, I hate the expansion of government. Everything the government touches is over costly and poorly run. And more than anything, we all know where this is leading. It's just the start of transforming into a single payer system. Too many high ranking democrats, Obama and Pelosi, for instance, have already stated it's their final intention and this is just a start in moving towards that direction.
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:03 AM   #8
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It has little to do with what is in the bill as opposed to what it's going to cost and how it will be paid for.

That's the angle the republicans will use to their advantage. 2010-2020 will be about fiscal responsibility IMO.

The first party that can grab the public's attention with the idea they are the more fiscally responsible will advance. Unfortunately for the dems they have regained drunken sailor status when it comes to taxpayer's pocket books. The passing of this bill makes it darn near impossible to change that POV.

It appears the dem playbook now is to demonize republicans who point out the obvious....in no way does this bill reduce the deficit and in no way do health care costs level out. In the coming months this will be pointed out over and over again, as it should be.

The celebrating at the WH and in congress will be short lived.
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:04 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILChief View Post
While most polls, show 55-60% disapprove of the HC bill, I haven't seen one that tells WHY people disapprove. I'd say a fair amount (not most but a substantial number) of those that disapprove do so because they prefer a true single payer type system. Now if the GOP thinks those people are gonna vote for them they're out of their minds.
Here are the results of a CNN Poll -

CNN Poll Results Link


21. (IF OPPOSE) Do you oppose that legislation because you think its approach toward health care is too liberal, or because you think it is not liberal enough? QUESTIONS 20 AND 21 COMBINED
Mar 19-21 2010

Favor (from Question 20) 39%
Oppose, too liberal 43%
Oppose, not liberal enough 13%
No opinion 5%

There is other info in there, but it looks like most people feel they will be paying more, getting worse care, it will raise the deficit, and it creates too much govt involvement.
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:15 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
It appears the dem playbook now is to demonize republicans who point out the obvious....
So they stole Karl Rove's playbook?
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:18 AM   #11
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[quote=kc rush;6626941]Here are the results of a CNN Poll -

CNN Poll Results Link


21. (IF OPPOSE) Do you oppose that legislation because you think its approach toward health care is too liberal, or because you think it is not liberal enough? QUESTIONS 20 AND 21 COMBINED
Mar 19-21 2010

Favor (from Question 20) 39%
Oppose, too liberal 43%
Oppose, not liberal enough 13%
No opinion 5%

There is other info in there, but it looks like most people feel they will be paying more, getting worse care, it will raise the deficit, and it creates too much govt involvement.[/quote]

Wait, what? From the info you just posted at the bottom it shows that 39% favor it and that 13% more want it to go further. That looks like the minority oppose it and think that they are paying more, getting worse care, raising the deficit, and creating too much government involvement.
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:22 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kc rush View Post
Here are the results of a CNN Poll -

CNN Poll Results Link


21. (IF OPPOSE) Do you oppose that legislation because you think its approach toward health care is too liberal, or because you think it is not liberal enough? QUESTIONS 20 AND 21 COMBINED
Mar 19-21 2010

Favor (from Question 20) 39%
Oppose, too liberal 43%
Oppose, not liberal enough 13%
No opinion 5%

There is other info in there, but it looks like most people feel they will be paying more, getting worse care, it will raise the deficit, and it creates too much govt involvement.
That's exactly what willl happen.
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Old 03-23-2010, 02:47 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by bowener View Post

Wait, what? From the info you just posted at the bottom it shows that 39% favor it and that 13% more want it to go further. That looks like the minority oppose it and think that they are paying more, getting worse care, raising the deficit, and creating too much government involvement.
The majority of the people (59%) oppose this for one reason or another according to the CNN poll.

The way I'm reading this (if you looked at the link), while it looks like only 43% oppose it because they feel it is too liberal, the majority of poll respondents feel they will be paying more, it will raise the deficit, and it creates too much govt involvement no matter whether they favor the bill or not.

I will correct myself in saying that majority feel they will get worse care. A small percentage (19%) feel they will be better off while a large percentage (47%) fell they will be worse off. There are 33% who feel they will be the same. (See Q #25 below).

Look at the link and let me know if you interpret the results differently.

24. From what you know of that legislation, do you think the amount you pay for medical care would increase, decrease, or remain the same if it becomes law?

Mar 19-21 2010

Increase 62%
Decrease 16%
Remain the same 21%
No opinion 1%

25. From what you know of that legislation, do you think you and your family would, in general, be better off, worse off or about the same if it becomes law?

Mar 19-21 2010

Better off 19%
Worse off 47%
About the same 33%
No opinion *

28. From what you know of that legislation, do you think the federal budget deficit will go up, go down, or stay the same if it becomes law?

Mar 19-21 2010

Go up 70%
Go down 12%
Stay the same 17%
No opinion 1%

29. In your view, does the Democratic party's health care proposal create too much government involvement in the nation's health care system, not enough government involvement, or about the right amount?

Mar 19-21 2010

Too much 56%
Not enough 16%
About the right amount 28%
No opinion *
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Old 03-23-2010, 03:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kc rush View Post
The majority of the people (59%) oppose this for one reason or another according to the CNN poll.

The way I'm reading this (if you looked at the link), while it looks like only 43% oppose it because they feel it is too liberal, the majority of poll respondents feel they will be paying more, it will raise the deficit, and it creates too much govt involvement no matter whether they favor the bill or not.

I will correct myself in saying that majority feel they will get worse care. A small percentage (19%) feel they will be better off while a large percentage (47%) fell they will be worse off. There are 33% who feel they will be the same. (See Q #25 below).

Look at the link and let me know if you interpret the results differently.

24. From what you know of that legislation, do you think the amount you pay for medical care would increase, decrease, or remain the same if it becomes law?

Mar 19-21 2010

Increase 62%
Decrease 16%
Remain the same 21%
No opinion 1%

25. From what you know of that legislation, do you think you and your family would, in general, be better off, worse off or about the same if it becomes law?

Mar 19-21 2010

Better off 19%
Worse off 47%
About the same 33%
No opinion *

28. From what you know of that legislation, do you think the federal budget deficit will go up, go down, or stay the same if it becomes law?

Mar 19-21 2010

Go up 70%
Go down 12%
Stay the same 17%
No opinion 1%

29. In your view, does the Democratic party's health care proposal create too much government involvement in the nation's health care system, not enough government involvement, or about the right amount?

Mar 19-21 2010

Too much 56%
Not enough 16%
About the right amount 28%
No opinion *
Currently in a hurry to leave so I can't check the link yet, but is there a question asking if those polled are at least VERY FAMILIAR with the new law? If there is, then they should only ask questions pertaining to the new law to people who are at least very familiar with it, otherwise it is all just rhetoric and hearsay.

Quote:
I will correct myself in saying that majority feel they will get worse care. A small percentage (19%) feel they will be better off while a large percentage (47%) fell they will be worse off. There are 33% who feel they will be the same. (See Q #25 below).
From this portion, does that mean then that, if we combine those who feel it will not change with those that feel it will change for the better, or 52%, a majority actual feel they will get equal to better care?

Polls can be pretty ****ing stupid because of the wording of questions and/or answers. This is one for instance. By saying "for better", "for worse", or "the same", it allows pollsters to state that the majority feel it will be worse, when in fact the majority feel it will change nothing or improve. Do you see what I am saying? Sorry if it is choppy or worded really shitty, but I have to run.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:03 PM   #15
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oh noess.... the people are upset...not
http://www.gallup.com/poll/126929/Sl...?version=print

Gallup/Usa Today taken on Monday says 49% approve of the bill, 40% disapprove of the bill.
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