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Old 06-18-2010, 09:40 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Let's talk about Hoover.

Great president, or greatest president?

Kidding.

Hoover is largely credited with allowing the Great Depression to have occurred with poor economic policymaking.

Those of you who consider yourself more schooled on Hoover's record, what do you make of this claim?
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:47 AM   #2
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Ask go bowe since he was probably alive then.
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:59 AM   #3
talastan talastan is offline
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From what I've studied Hoover was just as progressive as Wilson, and FDR. He expanded government and increased spending.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Hoover

Policies
Hoover entered office with a plan to reform the nation's regulatory system, believing that a federal bureaucracy should have limited regulation over a country's economic system.[27] A self-described Progressive and Reformer, Hoover saw the presidency as a vehicle for improving the conditions of all Americans by regulation and by encouraging volunteerism. Long before entering politics, he had denounced laissez-faire thinking.[28] As Commerce Secretary, he had taken an active pro-regulation stance. As President, he helped push tariff and farm subsidy bills through Congress.

Hoover expanded civil service coverage of Federal positions, canceled private oil leases on government lands, and by instructing the Justice Department and the Internal Revenue Service to pursue gangsters for tax evasion, he enabled the prosecution of Al Capone. He appointed a commission that set aside 3 million acres (12,000 km˛) of national parks and 2.3 million acres (9,000 km˛) of national forests; advocated tax reduction for low-income Americans (not enacted); closed certain tax loopholes for the wealthy; doubled the number of veterans' hospital facilities; negotiated a treaty on St. Lawrence Seaway (which failed in the U.S. Senate); wrote a Children's Charter that advocated protection of every child regardless of race or gender; created an antitrust division in the Justice Department; required air mail carriers to adopt stricter safety measures and improve service; proposed federal loans for urban slum clearances (not enacted); organized the Federal Bureau of Prisons; reorganized the Bureau of Indian Affairs; instituted prison reform; proposed a federal Department of Education (not enacted); advocated $50-per-month pensions for Americans over 65 (not enacted); chaired White House conferences on child health, protection, homebuilding and homeownership; began construction of the Boulder Dam (later renamed Hoover Dam); and signed the Norris-La Guardia Act that limited judicial intervention in labor disputes.

On November 19, 1928, Hoover embarked on a seven-week goodwill tour of several Latin American nations to outline his economic and trade policies to other nations in the Western Hemisphere.
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:18 AM   #4
Taco John Taco John is online now
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It's striking how similar Obama and Hoover are when you think about it. From his economic interventionism, his focus on volunteerism, progressive beliefs on taxing the rich to smithereens, and of course, general mismanagement - they are very similar when you look past Hoover being an R and Obama being a D. And I could easily see Obama pass a modern day Smoot-Hawley Tarriff to try and get Americans to eschew imports and buy American. Like Obama, Hoover believed in federal intervention into the economy. All his efforts ended up doing is hurting the poor by increasing prices on everything and slice our foriegn trade by over half - and worse, kicked off a worldwide trend of everyone increasing their own tarriffs. Hopefully Obama doesn't do something similar.

Hoover was a progressive through and through. His Revenue Act raised the top tax rate to over 60%, and doubled the estate tax. A lot of good that did. And then he was criticized for not doing enough! I think he did plenty! He also raised taxes on corporations. No one should be suprised by the unemployment that followed that move.

The funny thing is, Roosevelt campaigned against Hoover citing his "reckless and extravagant" spending and his runningmate, John Nance Garner, went so far as to accuse Obama - er Hoover of "leading the country down the path of socialism." That's pretty funny coming from the Roosevelt campaign, considering the socialist ponzi scheme that he instituted.

Progressives believe that the government can manipulate the economy and protect against market correction, and all they end up doing is making things worse - especially for the poorest.

I see Hoover and Obama as very similar... And the irony is that in the end, both will be criticized for not doing enough soon enough as the hallmark of their presidencies...
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Old 06-18-2010, 11:46 AM   #5
Jenson71 Jenson71 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post

Hoover was a progressive through and through. His Revenue Act raised the top tax rate to over 60%, and doubled the estate tax. A lot of good that did. And then he was criticized for not doing enough! I think he did plenty! He also raised taxes on corporations. No one should be suprised by the unemployment that followed that move.
Why do you say it was "his Revenue Act?" Because he signed it?

That was a great wikipedia article, by the way. You did your homework.
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Old 06-18-2010, 11:54 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenson71 View Post
Why do you say it was "his Revenue Act?" Because he signed it?

That was a great wikipedia article, by the way. You did your homework.

Hoover was very proud of his Revenue Act. He was urged by thousands of eveonomists to take a different tact and cut expenditures and taxation. He called this "chaos." He reacted like a Portland, Oregon liberal, and threatened that such a move would mean turning prisoners out on the streets and abolishing the Army and Navy...

Hoover:
Your thesis is that the government expenses can be reduced by $2 billion—the amount of the tax decrease. This is . . . wholly impossible. It would mean we must give up the postal service, the Merchant Marine, protection of life and property and public health. We would have to turn 40,000 prisoners loose in this country; we would have to stop the maintenance of rivers and harbors; we would have to stop all construction work going on in aid of unemployment; it would mean abolishment [sic] of the Army and Navy. In other words it means complete chaos.



Go away son. Come back when you have something to say.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:06 PM   #7
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I didn't actually look at the wikipedia article, but Jenson piqued my curiosity... I thought this was amusing:

"Although Hoover had come to detest the presidency, he agreed to run again in 1932, both as a matter of pride, but also because he feared that no other likely Republican candidate would deal with the depression without resorting to what Hoover considered dangerously radical measures." (i.e. reducing taxes and cutting expenditures)


My oh my has the Republican party been wandering in the woods for such a long, long time.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:18 PM   #8
Jenson71 Jenson71 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Hoover was very proud of his Revenue Act. He was urged by thousands of eveonomists to take a different tact and cut expenditures and taxation. He called this "chaos." He reacted like a Portland, Oregon liberal, and threatened that such a move would mean turning prisoners out on the streets and abolishing the Army and Navy...

Hoover:
Your thesis is that the government expenses can be reduced by $2 billion—the amount of the tax decrease. This is . . . wholly impossible. It would mean we must give up the postal service, the Merchant Marine, protection of life and property and public health. We would have to turn 40,000 prisoners loose in this country; we would have to stop the maintenance of rivers and harbors; we would have to stop all construction work going on in aid of unemployment; it would mean abolishment [sic] of the Army and Navy. In other words it means complete chaos.



Go away son. Come back when you have something to say.
Thousands of economists said that? Like who? And he led the crusade against their wishes? No one else urged his doing?

I don't think you're right that it was his Revenue Act. I think it originated like most bills -- in Congress, and specifically, in a Senate Committee. I don't think Hoover had any choice but to sign it, though he may have thought it was necessary.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:22 PM   #9
Jenson71 Jenson71 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post

The funny thing is, Roosevelt campaigned against Hoover citing his "reckless and extravagant" spending and his runningmate, John Nance Garner, went so far as to accuse Obama - er Hoover of "leading the country down the path of socialism." That's pretty funny coming from the Roosevelt campaign, considering the socialist ponzi scheme that he instituted.
Quote:
Wiki
Roosevelt attacked Hoover for "reckless and extravagant" spending, of thinking "that we ought to center control of everything in Washington as rapidly as possible," and of leading "the greatest spending administration in peacetime in all of history."[48] Roosevelt's running mate, John Nance Garner, accused the Republican of "leading the country down the path of socialism".[49]

Ironically, these policies pale beside the more drastic steps taken under Franklin D. Roosevelt's administration later as part of the New Deal.
What a coincidence.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:32 PM   #10
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Indeed. Only I would have loved to have had that bit about "centering control of everything in Washington as rapidly as possible." I wish I had come across that little tidbit.

I'm not saying I didn't do any research to back my take on him. I'm just saying that Wiki wasn't my go-to source. Given that I missed that precious tidbit, it probably should have been.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:35 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Jenson71 View Post
Thousands of economists said that? Like who? And he led the crusade against their wishes? No one else urged his doing?

I don't think you're right that it was his Revenue Act. I think it originated like most bills -- in Congress, and specifically, in a Senate Committee. I don't think Hoover had any choice but to sign it, though he may have thought it was necessary.
It originated in congress! No kidding!

Wow. You're bringing the big guns today, kiddo. Thanks for the blast of knowledge.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:36 PM   #12
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By the way, of course he had a choice. He could have vetoed it with a few strokes of a pen.

It was most certainly his bill. He put his name right on it:

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Old 06-18-2010, 12:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Great president, or greatest president?

Kidding.

Hoover is largely credited with allowing the Great Depression to have occurred with poor economic policymaking.

Those of you who consider yourself more schooled on Hoover's record, what do you make of this claim?
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:40 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Indeed. Only I would have loved to have had that bit about "centering control of everything in Washington as rapidly as possible." I wish I had come across that little tidbit.

I'm not saying I didn't do any research to back my take on him. I'm just saying that Wiki wasn't my go-to source. Given that I missed that precious tidbit, it probably should have been.
LOL. You're pretty much a huge fake.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:41 PM   #15
Jenson71 Jenson71 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
It originated in congress! No kidding!

Wow. You're bringing the big guns today, kiddo. Thanks for the blast of knowledge.
So if it originated in Congress, why would it be his bill? We're still waiting for that. Do you have those facts or are you speculating or just making stuff up that fits your agenda?
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