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Old 08-24-2010, 08:05 AM  
oldandslow oldandslow is offline
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A different perspective on the immigrant issue...

My associate dean told me a story yesterday that I think bears reflection...

She is the daughter of a first generation German who immigrated to this nation in 1947, just 2 years after World War II.

She told me her father had served on the "eastern front" (all German soldiers who immigrated to the US after the war served on that very same front - go figure ), spoke very little English, and came over to simply find a job.

Amazingly enough, this soldier of the Third Reich obtained citizenship a mere 6 months after entering the country.

At this same university, a person of Hispanic heritage has worked diligently as a janitor for several years, and is having a horrific time obtaining citizenship now. She knows several folks (esp in Sioux City) who have been deported.

I honestly think it is more difficult to obtain citizenship now than it was back then and that is at the core of what is causing the illegal immigrant problem.

Should we make it easier to obtain citizenship? Or should we admit that we simply don't want more people in the country and close the borders?

I do think it is different now, tho.
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Old 08-24-2010, 08:13 AM   #2
mlyonsd mlyonsd is online now
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I think there is a difference now too.

In the 40's and 50's our economy was booming. To the point we didn't have enough workers to fill the jobs. That isn't the case now.

We also have to face facts on social programs that have grown. For example I wonder what the CBO numbers would look like regarding our brilliant new HC system if we magically accept 12 million more people. And SS, considering most of these people haven't been paying in.

No, I think it would be wise to shut it down for about 30 years. Or at least to a time when the economy is booming to the point we can't fill jobs. Like 3% unemployment.
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Old 08-24-2010, 09:02 AM   #3
oldandslow oldandslow is offline
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
I think there is a difference now too.

In the 40's and 50's our economy was booming. To the point we didn't have enough workers to fill the jobs. That isn't the case now.

We also have to face facts on social programs that have grown. For example I wonder what the CBO numbers would look like regarding our brilliant new HC system if we magically accept 12 million more people. And SS, considering most of these people haven't been paying in.

No, I think it would be wise to shut it down for about 30 years. Or at least to a time when the economy is booming to the point we can't fill jobs. Like 3% unemployment.
I think you and I are in agreement (I know that comes as a shock to those who view me as a wingnut ).

Population, then, is the problem...that is - overpopulation. Too many folks, not enough resources.

If this is true, it opens up an entirely new set of dimensions to the problem, e.g. we want to control the numbers of people - but since the number of workers helps to determine the upkeep of the capitalist state, we don't really want to control it so much after all. No one runs on a platform of limited growth.

Therefore, I tend to view immigration as only a minor subset of the overall problem.
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Old 08-24-2010, 09:29 AM   #4
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This country has a process for people to follow to become legal in this country...maybe that process needs some improvement..don't know.

I am all for deporting anyone who sneaks in.
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Old 08-24-2010, 09:38 AM   #5
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I wonder if that German man referenced had found the process difficult, would he have chosen to come anyway and work under false identity?
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Old 08-24-2010, 09:49 AM   #6
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It's very difficult to really comment on the janitor's situation without knowing more details... he could very well be an honest, hard working guy. Then again, there could be any number of reasons as to why he's having a difficult time.

Becoming a citizen of the United States should be a difficult process... you're not joining a gym. Do parts of the process need to be 'enhanced'? Possibly, but the world is a different place from the 1940s... the United States is a different place.
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Old 08-24-2010, 09:52 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldandslow View Post
My associate dean told me a story yesterday that I think bears reflection...

She is the daughter of a first generation German who immigrated to this nation in 1947, just 2 years after World War II.

She told me her father had served on the "eastern front" (all German soldiers who immigrated to the US after the war served on that very same front - go figure ), spoke very little English, and came over to simply find a job.

Amazingly enough, this soldier of the Third Reich obtained citizenship a mere 6 months after entering the country.

At this same university, a person of Hispanic heritage has worked diligently as a janitor for several years, and is having a horrific time obtaining citizenship now. She knows several folks (esp in Sioux City) who have been deported.

I honestly think it is more difficult to obtain citizenship now than it was back then and that is at the core of what is causing the illegal immigrant problem.

Should we make it easier to obtain citizenship? Or should we admit that we simply don't want more people in the country and close the borders?

I do think it is different now, tho.
She's here illegally; the German immigrant wasn't? I'm sure if he had been in the same situation, citizenship would have been extremely elusive for him as well...
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Old 08-24-2010, 10:54 AM   #8
oldandslow oldandslow is offline
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Originally Posted by fan4ever View Post
She's here illegally; the German immigrant wasn't? I'm sure if he had been in the same situation, citizenship would have been extremely elusive for him as well...
No, that is not true...she has a green card or whatever it is that allows her to work...she just can't get citizenship. The University hires no one illegally as far as I know.
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Old 08-24-2010, 10:54 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by oldandslow View Post
Should we make it easier to obtain citizenship? Or should we admit that we simply don't want more people in the country and close the borders?
I think it should be much easier to obtain citizenship. Immigrants built this country and I don't think anything has changed.
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Old 08-24-2010, 10:57 AM   #10
vailpass vailpass is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldandslow View Post
My associate dean told me a story yesterday that I think bears reflection...

She is the daughter of a first generation German who immigrated to this nation in 1947, just 2 years after World War II.

She told me her father had served on the "eastern front" (all German soldiers who immigrated to the US after the war served on that very same front - go figure ), spoke very little English, and came over to simply find a job.

Amazingly enough, this soldier of the Third Reich obtained citizenship a mere 6 months after entering the country.

At this same university, a person of Hispanic heritage has worked diligently as a janitor for several years, and is having a horrific time obtaining citizenship now. She knows several folks (esp in Sioux City) who have been deported.

I honestly think it is more difficult to obtain citizenship now than it was back then and that is at the core of what is causing the illegal immigrant problem.

Should we make it easier to obtain citizenship? Or should we admit that we simply don't want more people in the country and close the borders?

I do think it is different now, tho.
The level of contribution you can make to the country as indicated by your skills, education and abilities factor in to visa and citizenship award.
What were this Germans skills and education?
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Old 08-24-2010, 10:58 AM   #11
Iowanian Iowanian is offline
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Did the German man in 1947 sneak into the country in the gas tank of a 1988 Ford Van or did he enter the country legally to begin with?


It should be easier to walk into a store and buy an item than it is to get caught shoplifting it and then try to pay for it to make things right....but after all, both people in this example wanted the item.



The United States used to need the bodies as well as the minds.

In my opinion, we should welcome immigration to persons and families of persons who offer a benefit to the United States.
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Old 08-24-2010, 10:58 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Forward Dante View Post
I think it should be much easier to obtain citizenship. Immigrants built this country and I don't think anything has changed.
Then you need to think harder.
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Old 08-24-2010, 11:03 AM   #13
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I think you and I are in agreement (I know that comes as a shock to those who view me as a wingnut ).
With your background you're not the typical wing nut. You bring a unique perspective to the board.

At least I always read your posts knowing your positions come from a history no one here has duplicated.
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Old 08-24-2010, 11:46 AM   #14
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Does your janitor speak, read, and write English?
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:13 PM   #15
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Does your janitor speak, read, and write English?
She speaks it. I can't comment on the read or write.
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