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Old 12-01-2010, 10:27 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Five reasons why I occaionally despair.

Five problems I perceive that I simply don't think we're capable of solving.

1. Ever-continual tax cuts for the rich. I believe in the power of capitalism, and that those who do well and produce much deserve to have more. I have been on both ends of that dynamic and I can appreciate its impact on society as a whole. But the widening gap between the rich and everybody else is incredibly disturbing to me.

During a recession in which the rich did well but the middle class was pounded and poverty expanded, I fail to see why the rich deserve ever-continual tax cuts that are increasingly disproportionate to their share of the economy. The constant fight to keep these people from paying more taxes, and putting their fair share into a system from which they've been fortunate enough to prosper is the ultimate triumph usurping of patriotism.

And unfortunately, the rich will win this fight every time. The taxes they are responsible for will forever slide down and down, leaving either one of two things in its wake: a weakened America that cannot pay its bills, or the emergence of an didactic oligarchy in the wake of an American government that was once capable of providing for those who struggle.

2. State secrets. The Wikileaks experience has taught us a few things over the course of the past few months, and it's this: the contempt those in power (governmentally, financially, and in the media) will forever be the greatest against those who expose state secrets, not against those that utilize secrecy to achieve some disgusting ends.

WikiLeaks has shown us some truly startling things, like live-action combat mistakes, tens of thousands of casualties being hidden from the public, and the corrupt dealings of governments as they interact with one another. But for every fascinating revelation, there are a thousand revelations that are ordinary and boring. Ordinary and boring! Why does the government, in its vast commitment to keep everything behind closed doors, need to keep ordinary, everyday dealings in the shadows?

Interpol has issued a warrant for Julian Assange. It will greatly restrict his movement, and he will likely rot in a jail cell for the rest of his life. And yet another great voice in the fight for government transparency will be neutralized by the vast powers of those who run the world. I fear that in the future, voices like his will be forever harder to hear.

3. Cutting down the deficit and debt. On this very forum, somebody posted a link to an exercise where you could cut down the deficit. It was so easy, and so simple, that it's absolutely shocking we haven't been able to do it already. Until you look at where the cutting needs to take place: defense and Medicare.

Our inability to ever figure out a way to cut down on defense is amazing to me. But even our ability to cut the production of things we never use and don't help us -- like "lazer plane" -- was continuously met with opposition. It took a miracle just to get us that far. There's simply no fighting all the districts across the country that cost us a ton of money in manufacturing and shipping. There's no fighting the vast contractor infestation that is excessive, expensive, and destructive.

Medicare is even more vexing, because while it's conservatives that largely resist the necessary vast cuts needed in defense, both conservatives and liberals resist the necessary vast cuts needed in Medicare. It feels as though there is no way to scale this mountain.

4. Our complete disdain for civil liberties. I think the shocking slide of civil liberties, starting with the eroding right to privacy and finally the slow grind into due process has been particularly disheartening. There has been so much said on the subject at this point, I don't have too much to add. Except that our irrational, excessive fear of terrorism has stretched from self-parody at this point to straight on constitutional erosion.

I do not fear terrorism. I don't fear them attacking me. I don't fear them attacking any of you. I don't fear them attacking New York City. I don't fear them attacking the ones that I love. And I have a hard time imagining anybody else here really does. I mean, really. Terrorists?

And yet we live in a society where the laws continue to reflect the understandable paranoia we felt at the turn of the century. And while the TSA flap was encouraging, I suppose, it was just a speed bump in what will be a continuing rollback of civil rights all in the name of protecting us from the Bad Guy Of The Month.

5. The juntas in Iran and Burma. There are few stories I follow more diligently than the international spread of democracy. But in this day of increasing technology which gives individuals the power of communicating better, and increasing one's knowledge of what the rest of the world possesses, governments also gain sophistication needed to fend off any assaults from their citizens, for good or bad.

In the case of Iran and especially Burma, bad. These are two countries starving for democracy that simply can't get it because those power won't give it up.

In Iran, you have people that have tried revolting against the government in the most democratic way possible: demonstrations and protests that involve Iranians of every walk of life AND BOTH GENDERS, while doing so without guns and weapons, and getting beaten down every time by the entrenched military government and the thugs they hire to terrorize their neighbors.

Burma is an even more hopeless cause, because the junta there will fire live rounds into crowds, imprison anybody that says the slightest thing against the government FOR DECADES, and they purposefully starve their population while shutting down the internet so they can't reach the outside world.

Both of these countries are international hostage situations, pure and simple. International opinion does not budge them. The options for these countries are seemingly hopeless.
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:59 PM   #61
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Wrong, it's more than just what the rich bring in. It's that, during a recession, the rich have brought even more in than they have before. Which means they are now bringing in what used to be brought in by the middle class. The middle class is making less, and poverty is greater than before. The money out there hasn't disappeared, it's been reallocated at even greater rates to the rich.

This creates an even greater income gap that is unhealthy for the entire country. It will make accumulating wealth far easier for a small minority and much more difficult for everybody else. That will slow any recovery, and harm the robustness of any economy.
Even though your thoughts are arguable you never address the real problem that the middle class is making less.

You can tax the rich until they are middle class and the underlying problem still isn't solved.

Which is why the liberal answer to the problem isn't really an anwer.
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Old 12-02-2010, 09:01 PM   #62
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
Even though your thoughts are arguable you never address the real problem that the middle class is making less.

You can tax the rich until they are middle class and the underlying problem still isn't solved.

Which is why the liberal answer to the problem isn't really an anwer.
You tax the rich until they are middle class you will see the middle class become the new lower class.
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Old 12-02-2010, 09:05 PM   #63
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Here is where the Left wants it both ways. Demonstrated with simple math.

Person making $20,000 a year pays approximately 20% in taxes = $4,000.
Person making $20,000 a year receives tax refund in the approximate amount of $4,000
Person making $20,000 a year ends up with a net-net of paying $0 in taxes


Person making $250,000 a year pays approximately 45% in taxes = $112,500
Person making $250,000 a year receives $0 in tax refunds if not pays more
Person making $250,000 a year ends up with a net-net of $112,500 paid in taxes


Yet all we hear is how the people who net-net pay no taxes need a tax cut while those who net-net pay taxes deserve a tax hike. That's pretty ****ed up.

I will even toss out that a low-income person with children actually receives more in a tax refund than they paid in taxes.
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Old 12-02-2010, 09:10 PM   #64
Jenson71 Jenson71 is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I'm more concerned that there's a little girl named Kennedy who is pushing over kids in the pre-school class my son is in than some Junta somewhere. Those fools let themselves be ruled by religion, and get the society that they deserve based on their own social evolution. I need to figure out a way to explain to my son that it's ok to stand up to girls if your friends are being pushed around without giving him lisence to push girls around.
An amusing argument. Discussing democracy in Iran is a waste of time because there are more important things, like raising a child, to think about. However, running a message board for NFL fans, and spending thousands of hours discussing a professional sports organization that you get no substantial economic gain from is time-worthy.

The sage of Portland, Taco John. With one hand, the rhetoric soars on about liberty and removing the government shackles around his wrists that bring him down to mediocrity. On the other hand, he believes the former president of the United States should be in prison, but can't come up with the law that the person allegedly broke in order to deserve prison.
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:30 PM   #65
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
Even though your thoughts are arguable you never address the real problem that the middle class is making less.

You can tax the rich until they are middle class and the underlying problem still isn't solved.

Which is why the liberal answer to the problem isn't really an anwer.
Are wages the only way to show rising standard of living? The cheap imports offset that.
Not that I am for Nafta, Gatt and all. Just saying it helps offset the wages....as well as hide the inflation.
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Old 12-02-2010, 11:32 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Here is where the Left wants it both ways. Demonstrated with simple math.

Person making $20,000 a year pays approximately 20% in taxes = $4,000.
Person making $20,000 a year receives tax refund in the approximate amount of $4,000
Person making $20,000 a year ends up with a net-net of paying $0 in taxes


Person making $250,000 a year pays approximately 45% in taxes = $112,500
Person making $250,000 a year receives $0 in tax refunds if not pays more
Person making $250,000 a year ends up with a net-net of $112,500 paid in taxes


Yet all we hear is how the people who net-net pay no taxes need a tax cut while those who net-net pay taxes deserve a tax hike. That's pretty ****ed up.

I will even toss out that a low-income person with children actually receives more in a tax refund than they paid in taxes
.
Not sure if the wording is off, but a man with 2 kids making a little over $24K gets back ALL of his federal taxes paid in PLUS he gets $1300 back per kid.
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:12 AM   #67
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The rich = most of the time people who lift everyones living standards with inventions and products that help our daily lives and create jobs.

Making everyone poorer and more equal does what? Ecuador and Cuba are examples.
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:16 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Jenson71 View Post
An amusing argument. Discussing democracy in Iran is a waste of time because there are more important things, like raising a child, to think about. However, running a message board for NFL fans, and spending thousands of hours discussing a professional sports organization that you get no substantial economic gain from is time-worthy.
That about sums it up. Discussing democracy in Iran is a waste of time. I mean, sure discuss it. But to despair over it... There are actual real problems affecting your own community, nobody should despair over the social evolution of another culture.


Quote:
The sage of Portland, Taco John. With one hand, the rhetoric soars on about liberty and removing the government shackles around his wrists that bring him down to mediocrity. On the other hand, he believes the former president of the United States should be in prison, but can't come up with the law that the person allegedly broke in order to deserve prison.
An interesting portrait, but hardly accurate. I'm not worried about mediocrity for me. I'm at the summit of my profession right now.

I'd put Bush in jail for breaking laws in the War Crimes Act of 1996, and the doctrine of command responsibility. I'm not sure what that has anything to do with this thread. At the very least, I'd put him in jail for the crimes he admits (authorizing torture). A man with as much blood on his hands as Bush has doesn't get a lot of sympathy from me. Did he jaywalk? Give him the chair!

There's a lot of American blood staining foriegn sands, and Bush owns every drop as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:19 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Jenson71 View Post
An amusing argument. Discussing democracy in Iran is a waste of time because there are more important things, like raising a child, to think about. However, running a message board for NFL fans, and spending thousands of hours discussing a professional sports organization that you get no substantial economic gain from is time-worthy.

The sage of Portland, Taco John. With one hand, the rhetoric soars on about liberty and removing the government shackles around his wrists that bring him down to mediocrity. On the other hand, he believes the former president of the United States should be in prison, but can't come up with the law that the person allegedly broke in order to deserve prison.
dayum, young jedi...

kick that donkey...
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:40 AM   #70
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I sometimes despair over the arachaic rules of the road in India...

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Old 12-03-2010, 12:43 AM   #71
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I'd put Bush in jail for breaking laws in the War Crimes Act of 1996, and the doctrine of command responsibility. I'm not sure what that has anything to do with this thread. At the very least, I'd put him in jail for the crimes he admits (authorizing torture). A man with as much blood on his hands as Bush has doesn't get a lot of sympathy from me. Did he jaywalk? Give him the chair!

There's a lot of American blood staining foriegn sands, and Bush owns every drop as far as I'm concerned.
I've never thought much of your commentary, this is the worst I've ever seen. Do you not know that if there was any law that Bush violated while he was in office the libtards in Washington would have had him up on charges in a New York Minute?

I suppose you feel that Bush is also responsible for the attacks of 9/11, and the attacks of the 1990's.

You are a nutjob of epic proportion. Are you one of the obots that hate everything America stands for? It sure seems like it.
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Old 12-03-2010, 01:00 AM   #72
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Quit buying Heinz ketchup if you don't like the rich.

It all goes to John Kerry anyways.

Done. See how that works. Bought a generic. tastes good on those burgers!
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Old 12-03-2010, 01:09 AM   #73
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I've never thought much of your commentary, this is the worst I've ever seen. Do you not know that if there was any law that Bush violated while he was in office the libtards in Washington would have had him up on charges in a New York Minute?

I suppose you feel that Bush is also responsible for the attacks of 9/11, and the attacks of the 1990's.

You are a nutjob of epic proportion. Are you one of the obots that hate everything America stands for? It sure seems like it.
Oh no. T0m C@sh doesn't like me. How will I go on another day?
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Old 12-03-2010, 02:30 AM   #74
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Oh no. T0m C@sh doesn't like me. How will I go on another day?
No Waco John, it's not that I don't like you. I don't know you. Your concepts are beyond the strange. You are simply nucking futs.

If you can't stand it here I kindly suggest that you just go away. Don't go away mad, just fo away.
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:03 AM   #75
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Great. Now I've got Jensen and Tom ganging up on me. How can I survive the onslaught? Woe! And again, woe!
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