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Old 12-20-2010, 10:40 AM  
B_Ambuehl B_Ambuehl is offline
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Did you over-react to the work of Casshole?

Against Seattle and Arizona?

From reading this board it sounds like Cassell just won the MVP trophy, but when I look at his stats for the last 2 football games this is what I find:

Denver: 17-31 196 1-0
St Louis: 15-29 184 1-1

That's barely 50% completion percentage against 2 shitty football teams WITH an outstanding running game behind him.

When I look at his record I don't think he's won a football game when he didn't get at least 140 rushing yards to support him.

The fact is Seattle and Arizona can make anybody look good. Hell, Alex Smith went for ~300 yds and 3 TDs last week vs Seattle.

At some point Casshole's gonna have to prove he can win a football game by himself without much of a running game against a good defense playing coverage. Opposing teams routinely sell out on the run when they face us. When you're only completing ~50% of your passes vs the kind of coverage he's been getting I think there are legitimate questions whether he's capable of doing that.

"But casshole is so tough and he's become a leader blah blah blah". ****ing trent dilfer was tough and a leader too. Doesn't make him a good QB. Hell, Tim Tebow's tough and a leader. Doesn't make him an NFL player.

Flame away.
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:36 AM   #106
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The original post mentions the last two games that Cassel has played.

Interesting material. Even more interesting, the one that Cassel didn't.

To act as if any QB could come in and do well in this system because of the run game is ridiculous. The offense, led by Croyle, had 70 total yards.

While I would never tout Cassel as MVP... when you look at the disparity between this team WITH Cassel, and this team WITHOUT Cassel..... there, in fact, may be no single player that is more important to their team.

Now, one would have to have more than one game to assert that confidently. However, it certainly looks that way.
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:51 AM   #107
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Haven't read thread just an observation.
Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees have no real running game.
Seems you either run the ball with an average to slightly above QB or you barely run the ball and throw it all over the field anymore.
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:53 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by acesn8s View Post
If we win the next two games, it will be the second 11-5 team Cassel has commanded in 3 years.
Now now. You can't start using facts to bolster your pov.

It just isn't argue worthy if you do!

All things considered I'm already pumped for next year, no matter what happens this year I'd say we have a chance to show continuing improvement all around as a team and a franchise.

Back to CHIEFS dominance in the AFC/NFL.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:01 AM   #109
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1. Trent Dilfer
2. Mark Rypien
3. Jim McMahon
4. Brad Johnson

All have SB rings as a starting QB so time to bust a new a crappy argument.
The argument has never been "average QBs have never won the Super Bowl."
It has always been, "though an average QB could win a SB, a great one can have you in the hunt year-in and year-out."

So I guess it's all about what you want for the franchise. While everyone would be ecstatic with a SB win, wouldn't it be infinitely better to have a team equipped to at least be in the SB conversation every year?


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Old 12-21-2010, 09:04 AM   #110
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The argument has never been "average QBs have never won the Super Bowl."
It has always been, "though an average QB could win a SB, a great one can have you in the hunt year-in and year-out."

So I guess it's all about what you want for the franchise. While everyone would be ecstatic with a SB win, wouldn't it be infinitely better to have a team equipped to at least be in the SB conversation every year?


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You don't see Cassel developing into that QB that would give us the probability of being a contender for a few years to come?
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:05 AM   #111
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the whole team wants to play better for cassel because they see him giving it his all.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:10 AM   #112
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the whole team wants to play better for cassel because they see him giving it his all.
Of course this is just my opinion but that shows that Cassel is a leader and those on the team know that and are behind him 100%. That's good news for down the road.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:37 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl View Post
What's your list look like?

My point was that approximately half the NFL has franchise QBs or guys with the tools to develop into them. If you're not on that list you're not a serious contender and the only way to be a serious contender is to get on that list. Unfortunately, I haven't seen enough out of Cassell to put him on that list, and I don't think anyone who's truly being objective about things really has either.
But you've seen enough of Matt Flynn? Seriously, WTF?
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:42 AM   #114
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Haven't read thread just an observation.
Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees have no real running game.
Seems you either run the ball with an average to slightly above QB or you barely run the ball and throw it all over the field anymore.
Your point is valid, but your evidence is shaky, at least for the Patriots. They are tied for 11th in NFL with 4.3 yards per carry and 15th with 112 yards/game.

BJGE doesn't excite anyone, but he's an Antowain Smith plowhorse who almost never loses yards, and Woody is Woody. Sure, it's not Charles and Jones, but it's adequate.

But your point is valid, again. The NFL is no longer a run first league, or "run to set up the pass". But if you have NO running game, you do have problems.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:51 AM   #115
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I've seen Cassel make huge strides this year from a mechanical standpoint, and he's just emrging.

To suggest he's reached his ceiling is ridiculous.
It's possible that he has, but highly unlikely, because it's well documented that he puts in the work to improve.

That being said, the thing that has me sold on Cassel right now is that we see a team that believes in him.

That's well over half the battle.

He grown into the clear leader of this team.
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Old 12-21-2010, 10:08 AM   #116
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He grown into the clear leader of this team.
Not to dismiss any of what you said before the last sentence, but this is the one big thing that has an impact on the team.

Cassel is going to be fine and barring injury just may be the QB that we need for the immediate future 2-4 years or more, IMO.
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Old 12-21-2010, 10:26 AM   #117
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The argument has never been "average QBs have never won the Super Bowl."
It has always been, "though an average QB could win a SB, a great one can have you in the hunt year-in and year-out."

So I guess it's all about what you want for the franchise. While everyone would be ecstatic with a SB win, wouldn't it be infinitely better to have a team equipped to at least be in the SB conversation every year?


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The best of those guys is barely average, I mean seriously the best guy on that list is fuggin Brad Johnson, and Brad Johnson was mediocre outside of that SB season.
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Old 12-21-2010, 10:58 AM   #118
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I'm not sure I've ever rooted for a KC player to fail. I know there were several posters that wished Trent Green would fail because they didn't like the trade, etc. I just can't figure out why.

I hated the Tyson Jackson pick, but I don't want to see him fail. Look at his contract? We're bitching about Cassel's? And speaking of the contract or money...who cares? Cassel didn't ask for that contract nor should he be judged on it or have to live up to it. Blame Pioli if you don't like it...Not Cassel.

Right now, Cassel is playing with confidence, going through reads, showing good footwork and pocket awareness. His accuracy has improved and mistakes have reduced.

...But by all means, keep rooting against him Chiefs fans??
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:18 AM   #119
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I'm not sure I've ever rooted for a KC player to fail. I know there were several posters that wished Trent Green would fail because they didn't like the trade, etc. I just can't figure out why.

I hated the Tyson Jackson pick, but I don't want to see him fail. Look at his contract? We're bitching about Cassel's? And speaking of the contract or money...who cares? Cassel didn't ask for that contract nor should he be judged on it or have to live up to it. Blame Pioli if you don't like it...Not Cassel.

Right now, Cassel is playing with confidence, going through reads, showing good footwork and pocket awareness. His accuracy has improved and mistakes have reduced.

...But by all means, keep rooting against him Chiefs fans??
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Well technically, Cassel or his agent, had to ask for more than what Cassel got in his contract.
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:25 AM   #120
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I'm not sure I've ever rooted for a KC player to fail. I know there were several posters that wished Trent Green would fail because they didn't like the trade, etc. I just can't figure out why.
I hated that trade, but I never rooted for Green to fail.

I grew to respect Green, though I never had faith that he could make plays consistently late in games.

But I hated that trade for the very same reason I hated the trade for Montana.

Age.

I don't need to necessarily draft a QB, but I want a young QB that has the potential to lead this team for more than 6 or 7 years.

I'm watching Matt Cassel grow into the position, and now believe he has the chance to be that guy for the next 6-8 years.

But damn, I hope to hell that we someday find and groom a guy that can be that guy for 10-12-13 years.
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