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Old 01-27-2011, 07:15 PM  
Saul Good Saul Good is offline
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Career Advice

The last month or so, one of my company's competitors has been trying to recruit me away from my current employer. I'm reasonably happy where I am and will hit 5 years of service on March 1st (which means that I will be fully vested).

The new company kept calling, so I decided that I would meet with them and listen to their pitch. After meeting with HR and the office manager, it's pretty clear that they are going to make me an offer. I told the office manager that it was going to cost them more than they were planning on spending in order to get me to switch. He said that he would pressure them to give me what I wanted, but we didn't get to hard numbers yet.

I'm planning on asking for a 20-30% increase over what I currently make. I think they might agree to 20%. Whatever they offer, I am going to take it to my current employer and ask them to match it when my 5 year review comes up next month. If it's 20%+, I doubt they will match it, but they will probably meet me somewhere in between.

My question is this: How much money should I be willing to leave on the table in order to stay where I am? It's basically a lateral move, and there's always the risk/hassle factor associated with switching companies. Assuming that everything is a push in terms of pros and cons between the two compaines, how much is it worth to stay where I'm comfortable?
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Old 08-04-2012, 07:30 AM   #61
Buehler445 Buehler445 is offline
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I know that this company can negotiate, though. My thought is that they could counter with something half-way. However, I really, really think that my counter is very reasonable, and I'm prepared to walk away if not met. I want it the job though, with the +3800. Is it stupid to have +3800 so important? It's not a huge percentage increase, but it's a good increase.
That's fair. If it is important to you, then do it. It is tough to know with me knowing nothing about the job or your career.
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Old 08-04-2012, 07:34 AM   #62
La literatura La literatura is offline
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The great thing about the job is that I can be a partner by the time I'm 29 years old. The bad part about the job is that I will be biting the bullet for those first few years with a pretty damn low salary. But my counter is still in the lower 25th percentile of comparable graduates, so I'm just very much stuck on having that +3800 raise.
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Old 08-04-2012, 07:55 AM   #63
Buehler445 Buehler445 is offline
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Originally Posted by Literature View Post
The great thing about the job is that I can be a partner by the time I'm 29 years old. The bad part about the job is that I will be biting the bullet for those first few years with a pretty damn low salary. But my counter is still in the lower 25th percentile of comparable graduates, so I'm just very much stuck on having that +3800 raise.
To me that seals the deal. Future income goes a hell of a lot further than $3800 now. But you could still negotiate for it.
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:51 AM   #64
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Saul, it sounds like you were being invited to the SEC.

How did it all turn out btw?

Even though this is a bumped thread I'll give my anecdotal advice. I was called about a position in July of '11. Exactly what I was doing but the pay was 34% higher.

We talk more and I agree to come out for an interview and a 3 day visit and observation. Upon driving up to the place, the building sells itself. It's quite beautiful. I notice when I enter the area where I work, that it's small, cluttered, and the equipment is ...older. Which seemed odd to me. If you're going to build a new building, why not put new up to date equipment in it? Also, the employees actually look like they don't want to be there. Two in particular were extremely indifferent to me. (Turns out, I took over what the two of them had been doing together for eight years and moved them into roles more suited to their skills. So I wasn't just imagining things.)

Technologically, the company where I was at the time had a practice of getting and maintaining the newest, best equipment. We had in house service in the event anything broke down and the company policy was "If it's down, fix it. Now".

I failed to ask that question when I was interviewing for three days. Older equipment breaks. Constantly. And with no in house repair, the new place relies on a contract but does not pay OT (after 5 pm weekdays or weekends) rate for repair. That's really bad service and really bad negotiation on a contract.

Three days of interviews and upon leaving I'm told by the Operations Manager " We have interviewed 12 candidates. You're number one the list. BUT, we cannot make the decision until after Labor Day".

So I leave thinking I've got 30+ days to think about what I want to do with my career. Until the following Thursday (4 days after returning) when the Operations Manager of the department calls and offer me the job. I stumble through the phone discussion and accept. I immediately call and discuss it with my boss and director at the time.

My boss offered to find me more money. I told her not to worry about it. I couldn't leave. The day I walked into that job in KC I knew I was there for life. So, I have a change of heart leaving that day and call the other company to say, "I'm sorry, I was a little hasty in accepting. Please understand, that for reasons I cannot really put into words, I can't accept the position".

He expresses his disappointment but agree it's better to know this now rather take the position and regret the move later. All seemed settled. Until the HR and Compensation guy calls me the next day and says: "Normally, I make the job offer calls. And when I do, I prefer to allow the prospective employee to take a day or two to decide. This is a big move, and you're going to move 2k miles away. Why don't you take a few days and think it over? Also, in order to make this more worth your while, we are going to offer you a little more compensation in salary (7500$ more annually plus the 34% higher salary). I'm stunned. I agree that I'll take a few days to think it over.

In the end, I accepted. But I do regret it. I battle disengaged employees every day. While I can be a taskmaster, I prefer not to manage 30+ employees in that manner. I've terminated 4 employees and need to remove about two more giant tumors before this ship will sail smoothly. Compounding the issue, is equipment failure. Getting timely (same day) repair is like pulling teeth. Although we have made enormous strides in that area.

The long story here Saul from my perspective is you're only 32/33 years old. I took this offer with the same thought you did: "If I don't take it now, I may never get the opportunity". In that respect, I'm glad I did it. But just know, that you'll get more offers. Good employees, smart employees always will. And my offer came when I was 50.

I know this because I was contacted by another place this week. Out of the blue. (I guess Linked In is good for something). It pays more than what I'm getting now and is within 30 miles of the beach. I don't know what will happen, but I'm not averse to listening to what they have to say.

Hope it all worked out for you.
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:08 AM   #65
Saul Good Saul Good is offline
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Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish View Post
Saul, it sounds like you were being invited to the SEC.

How did it all turn out btw?

Even though this is a bumped thread I'll give my anecdotal advice. I was called about a position in July of '11. Exactly what I was doing but the pay was 34% higher.

We talk more and I agree to come out for an interview and a 3 day visit and observation. Upon driving up to the place, the building sells itself. It's quite beautiful. I notice when I enter the area where I work, that it's small, cluttered, and the equipment is ...older. Which seemed odd to me. If you're going to build a new building, why not put new up to date equipment in it? Also, the employees actually look like they don't want to be there. Two in particular were extremely indifferent to me. (Turns out, I took over what the two of them had been doing together for eight years and moved them into roles more suited to their skills. So I wasn't just imagining things.)

Technologically, the company where I was at the time had a practice of getting and maintaining the newest, best equipment. We had in house service in the event anything broke down and the company policy was "If it's down, fix it. Now".

I failed to ask that question when I was interviewing for three days. Older equipment breaks. Constantly. And with no in house repair, the new place relies on a contract but does not pay OT (after 5 pm weekdays or weekends) rate for repair. That's really bad service and really bad negotiation on a contract.

Three days of interviews and upon leaving I'm told by the Operations Manager " We have interviewed 12 candidates. You're number one the list. BUT, we cannot make the decision until after Labor Day".

So I leave thinking I've got 30+ days to think about what I want to do with my career. Until the following Thursday (4 days after returning) when the Operations Manager of the department calls and offer me the job. I stumble through the phone discussion and accept. I immediately call and discuss it with my boss and director at the time.

My boss offered to find me more money. I told her not to worry about it. I couldn't leave. The day I walked into that job in KC I knew I was there for life. So, I have a change of heart leaving that day and call the other company to say, "I'm sorry, I was a little hasty in accepting. Please understand, that for reasons I cannot really put into words, I can't accept the position".

He expresses his disappointment but agree it's better to know this now rather take the position and regret the move later. All seemed settled. Until the HR and Compensation guy calls me the next day and says: "Normally, I make the job offer calls. And when I do, I prefer to allow the prospective employee to take a day or two to decide. This is a big move, and you're going to move 2k miles away. Why don't you take a few days and think it over? Also, in order to make this more worth your while, we are going to offer you a little more compensation in salary (7500$ more annually plus the 34% higher salary). I'm stunned. I agree that I'll take a few days to think it over.

In the end, I accepted. But I do regret it. I battle disengaged employees every day. While I can be a taskmaster, I prefer not to manage 30+ employees in that manner. I've terminated 4 employees and need to remove about two more giant tumors before this ship will sail smoothly. Compounding the issue, is equipment failure. Getting timely (same day) repair is like pulling teeth. Although we have made enormous strides in that area.

The long story here Saul from my perspective is you're only 32/33 years old. I took this offer with the same thought you did: "If I don't take it now, I may never get the opportunity". In that respect, I'm glad I did it. But just know, that you'll get more offers. Good employees, smart employees always will. And my offer came when I was 50.

I know this because I was contacted by another place this week. Out of the blue. (I guess Linked In is good for something). It pays more than what I'm getting now and is within 30 miles of the beach. I don't know what will happen, but I'm not averse to listening to what they have to say.

Hope it all worked out for you.
I wound up taking it, and it's worked out well.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:23 AM   #66
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Hmm, I'm a bit confused here.

Saul was a just an employee of somebody else in this thread, seeking the advice of CP members on his next career move. This was in early 2011. And apparently he took the job, and is happy with it. Good for him. I guess the job market's tough in Kansas these days.

So, when, exactly did you own your own company? With your name on the door? October of the same year, apparently.

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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
I do own my own company, and my name is on the door. Trust me, the secretary works for me, not the people she answers phones for. If you can't fire someone or promote someone, they don't work for you. Don't try to swell up and act like you're signing checks just to sound cool on the net.
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...1&postcount=67

So tell me, Saul, how'd you go from employee who seeks career advice on a football board to CHECK SIGNING OWNER OF YOUR OWN COMPANY WITH YOUR NAME ON THE DOOR to employee again?

Did you spray paint your name on the door and hope nobody would notice? Perhaps you took a job working for somebody who shares a common last name, so your name does appear on the checks?

Or maybe you're just a lying piece of shit.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:32 AM   #67
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:37 AM   #68
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Fraz with the proper use of the search engine. I'll admit, the timeline does not add up.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:39 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by frazod View Post
Hmm, I'm a bit confused here.

Saul was a just an employee of somebody else in this thread, seeking the advice of CP members on his next career move. This was in early 2011. And apparently he took the job, and is happy with it. Good for him. I guess the job market's tough in Kansas these days.

So, when, exactly did you own your own company? With your name on the door? October of the same year, apparently.



http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...1&postcount=67

So tell me, Saul, how'd you go from employee who seeks career advice on a football board to CHECK SIGNING OWNER OF YOUR OWN COMPANY WITH YOUR NAME ON THE DOOR to employee again?

Did you spray paint your name on the door and hope nobody would notice? Perhaps you took a job working for somebody who shares a common last name, so your name does appear on the checks?

Or maybe you're just a lying piece of shit.
Impressive stalking, bro.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:40 AM   #70
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Fraz with the proper use of the search engine. I'll admit, the timeline does not add up.
Don't you just hate people who try to swell up and act like they're signing checks?
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:44 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by frazod View Post
Hmm, I'm a bit confused here.

Saul was a just an employee of somebody else in this thread, seeking the advice of CP members on his next career move. This was in early 2011. And apparently he took the job, and is happy with it. Good for him. I guess the job market's tough in Kansas these days.

So, when, exactly did you own your own company? With your name on the door? October of the same year, apparently.



http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...1&postcount=67

So tell me, Saul, how'd you go from employee who seeks career advice on a football board to CHECK SIGNING OWNER OF YOUR OWN COMPANY WITH YOUR NAME ON THE DOOR to employee again?

Did you spray paint your name on the door and hope nobody would notice? Perhaps you took a job working for somebody who shares a common last name, so your name does appear on the checks?

Or maybe you're just a lying piece of shit.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:44 AM   #72
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Impressive stalking, bro.
Nah, just a timely bump that I happened to notice on the front page. Had I actually been stalking him, I'd have bumped this myself when he started talking shit in Luv's thread.

Now that would have been epic.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:45 AM   #73
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Don't you just hate people who try to swell up and act like they're signing checks?
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:48 AM   #74
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A lot of people do own side businesses. A friend of mine works in sales by day, and sells merchandise by mail-order in his spare time for a bit of extra cash. I don't know the details of your prior debate or this person, but it's not out of the question is it?
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:48 AM   #75
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