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Old 02-02-2011, 03:24 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Arizona posturing for de facto seccession

File this under "nullification isn't as dead as some would like you to believe it is."


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E.J. Montini's Columns & Blog
E.J. Montini is a columnist for The Arizona Republic.

Arizona to secede (without OFFICIALLY doing so)

Members of the state Legislature, including Arizona's de facto governor, Senate President Russell Pearce, have introduced a bill that essentially would have Arizona secede from the union without having to do so officially.

Really.

It's called SB1433, (See it here.) It creates a 12-member committee within the legislature that could "vote by simple majority to nullify in its entirety a specific federal law or regulation that is outside the scope of the powers delegated by the people to the federal government…"

Committee members themselves would decide this, then pass along their recommendation to the full Legislature. If, in turn, a majority of state lawmakers go along with the committee then, according to the bill, "this state and its citizens shall not recognize or be obligated to live under the statute, mandate or executive order."

The nullification committee also would be permitted to review all existing federal laws to see if our legislative geniuses want to toss them out as well.

In every legislative session in every state throughout the land there are proposals like this, usually made by a few fringe members who know their proposal has no chance but file it anyway to serve some personal or political agenda.

In this instance, legislators here -- who claim to be strict constitutionalists -- seem fairly willing to ignore what is commonly called the "supremacy clause" of the U.S. Constitution (as well as the Fourteenth Amendment), and which more or less say that federal law supersedes state law.

A state or a person can challenge such laws in court. But a state can't on its own simply declare a federal law to be unconsitutional.

Legislators who propose such things often are quietly patted on the heads and laughed off by their colleagues.

In our case, however, the legislation is being proposed by, among others, Sen. Pearce, the most powerful person in state government.

So, as wacky as the proposal is, that makes it much less of a laughing matter.

Wednesday, February 2, 2011 at 11:57 AM
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:25 PM   #166
The Mad Crapper The Mad Crapper is offline
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Originally Posted by Jenson71 View Post
You mock the Church's teachings and mock those people who live out the Church's teachings precisely for living out those teachings.
Same rain falls, Jenson.

Sucks to be you.
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:25 PM   #167
Jenson71 Jenson71 is offline
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Resrot to what? That your are still in college and have yet to enter the working world yet want to tell those who have been in the working world for decades that you know more than them about how things are?
Resort to you trumping up your mystical life experience as validation for your political opinions, like support of dissolving the United States of America through state secession.
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:28 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
This has been interesting but a lot of irrelevant spewing going on.

To the OP...it seems,at least to me, that what Arizona or a few Arizona legislators are saying is that they feel like the Federal government has abdicated its responsibility to protect Arizona and to maintain a border. Under the circumstances of being first ignored, then being sued to do their job, the fed has walked away from Arizona. Or so these Arizonans feel.

So, do they have as much a right to walk from the federal government? Does a federal government who treats a state with contempt have any expectations a state will not return the favor?

Just as states have implied responsibility to the union, the union has responsibility to the states.

What Arizona is saying is that Washington needs to wake up and recognize the elected administration cannot walk roughshod over whomever they choose in their attempt to impose its ideology on the country. And that when pushed too far states, Arizona being the first, will stand up to the Federal government.

This administration is deaf to signals that they disagree with. Health Care being challenged by over half the states on constitutional grounds, states like Missouri overwhelmingly saying in the ballot box they oppose nationalized HC should show that states will join together and will come to each others aid on issues people feel strongly about. Others will join Arizona. All as a result of the administrations lack of will in defending a state in a time of need.

Forcing EPA regulations as a way to get around the failure of Cap and Trade to pass will further reinforce the states need to oppose regulation that is unpopular, based on questionable science and is another manifestation of a ideology that is being imposed rather than sold and accepted. Texas will roll on that one first followed by other states.

The will of the people and the peoples desire to grant federal government certain powers is not something to be taken lightly. The result of abusing that position will and should be a reduction in the power granted until the people feel once again they can trust the federal government.

Its all about trust. This administration is burning daily the trust built up over 200 years. They should not be surprised when power is taken away.
Excellent post.
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:28 PM   #169
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
This has been interesting but a lot of irrelevant spewing going on.

To the OP...it seems,at least to me, that what Arizona or a few Arizona legislators are saying is that they feel like the Federal government has abdicated its responsibility to protect Arizona and to maintain a border. Under the circumstances of being first ignored, then being sued to do their job, the fed has walked away from Arizona. Or so these Arizonans feel.

So, do they have as much a right to walk from the federal government? Does a federal government who treats a state with contempt have any expectations a state will not return the favor?

Just as states have implied responsibility to the union, the union has responsibility to the states.

What Arizona is saying is that Washington needs to wake up and recognize the elected administration cannot walk roughshod over whomever they choose in their attempt to impose its ideology on the country. And that when pushed too far states, Arizona being the first, will stand up to the Federal government.

This administration is deaf to signals that they disagree with. Health Care being challenged by over half the states on constitutional grounds, states like Missouri overwhelmingly saying in the ballot box they oppose nationalized HC should show that states will join together and will come to each others aid on issues people feel strongly about. Others will join Arizona. All as a result of the administrations lack of will in defending a state in a time of need.

Forcing EPA regulations as a way to get around the failure of Cap and Trade to pass will further reinforce the states need to oppose regulation that is unpopular, based on questionable science and is another manifestation of a ideology that is being imposed rather than sold and accepted. Texas will roll on that one first followed by other states.

The will of the people and the peoples desire to grant federal government certain powers is not something to be taken lightly. The result of abusing that position will and should be a reduction in the power granted until the people feel once again they can trust the federal government.

Its all about trust. This administration is burning daily the trust built up over 200 years. They should not be surprised when power is taken away.
You do realize the Supreme Court has or will soon rule on all those issues? Do they not matter any more?

As I stated in your other thread the Supreme Court ruled the EPA could regulate emissions.

Federal Courts have already overturned the majority of the Arizona immigration law and I imagine when it gets to the SC it will uphold the lower court rulings.

And I think the SC will uphold Obamacare or strip the mandatory portion of it and keep the rest.

But yes it is all Obama's fault
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:29 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by The Mad Crapper View Post
More than one, I should say.

Jesus doesn't want drones, you pathetic pollyanish moonbat.
I imagine I will see you in hell
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:30 PM   #171
Jenson71 Jenson71 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
so you say now. But I think your posts say otherwise.
Pete, you and I have had these discussions too often. I say something that you disagree with. I disagree with you. You talk about how much more life experience you have than me. This includes something like you getting a paycheck. You talk about how secluded the academic world is from reality (notwithstanding that I studied history and political science). You talk about how education is so much less valuable than experience.

And that's your argument. You never talk about what your experience is, specifically. I never disagree about the importance of experience. I try to debate using the usual methods. You talk about getting a paycheck and how that makes your opinion better.
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:30 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenson71 View Post
Resort to you trumping up your mystical life experience as validation for your political opinions, like support of dissolving the United States of America through state secession.
There is nothing mystical about it, Jenson. It's fact. You can tout your patriotism all you want. I on the other hand would rather see states seceed instead of bending over and letting the Fed Gov **** them into something America is not supposed to be.
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:30 PM   #173
Jenson71 Jenson71 is offline
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Originally Posted by The Mad Crapper View Post
Same rain falls, Jenson.

Sucks to be you.
You mock the Church's teachings and mock those people who live out the Church's teachings precisely for living out those teachings.
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:31 PM   #174
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenson71 View Post
Pete, you and I have had these discussions too often. I say something that you disagree with. I disagree with you. You talk about how much more life experience you have than me. This includes something like you getting a paycheck. You talk about how secluded the academic world is from reality (notwithstanding that I studied history and political science). You talk about how education is so much less valuable than experience.

And that's your argument. You never talk about what your experience is, specifically. I never disagree about the importance of experience. I try to debate using the usual methods. You talk about getting a paycheck and how that makes your opinion better.
Yep, that's right. It's one thing to read about it, it's another to live it. That's just how it is.
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:31 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
There is nothing mystical about it, Jenson. It's fact. You can tout your patriotism all you want. I on the other hand would rather see states seceed instead of bending over and letting the Fed Gov **** them into something America is not supposed to be.
WHAT IS YOUR LIFE EXPERIENCE, PETE!?!?!?

Are you going to answer, or will you continue running from the question? What is your life experience, and why does it make your political views more valid?
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:31 PM   #176
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I imagine I will see Jenson in hell
I'm not even going to venture a guess.
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:31 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
Yep, that's right. It's one thing to read about it, it's another to live it. That's just how it is.
What have you lived?
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:31 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by The Mad Crapper View Post
I'm not even going to venture a guess.
You mock the Church's teachings and mock those people who live out the Church's teachings precisely for living out those teachings.
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:33 PM   #179
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WHAT IS YOUR LIFE EXPERIENCE, PETE!?!?!?
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:34 PM   #180
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There is something very wrong with this kid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenson71 View Post
You mock the Church's teachings and mock those people who live out the Church's teachings precisely for living out those teachings.
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