U.S. Issues Arizona posturing for de facto seccession - Page 15

Taco John · 02-02-2011, 02:24 PM

File this under "nullification isn't as dead as some would like you to believe it is."

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/EJMontini/117684

E.J. Montini's Columns & Blog
E.J. Montini is a columnist for The Arizona Republic.

Arizona to secede (without OFFICIALLY doing so)

Members of the state Legislature, including Arizona's de facto governor, Senate President Russell Pearce, have introduced a bill that essentially would have Arizona secede from the union without having to do so officially.

Really.

It's called SB1433, (See it here.) It creates a 12-member committee within the legislature that could "vote by simple majority to nullify in its entirety a specific federal law or regulation that is outside the scope of the powers delegated by the people to the federal government…"

Committee members themselves would decide this, then pass along their recommendation to the full Legislature. If, in turn, a majority of state lawmakers go along with the committee then, according to the bill, "this state and its citizens shall not recognize or be obligated to live under the statute, mandate or executive order."

The nullification committee also would be permitted to review all existing federal laws to see if our legislative geniuses want to toss them out as well.

In every legislative session in every state throughout the land there are proposals like this, usually made by a few fringe members who know their proposal has no chance but file it anyway to serve some personal or political agenda.

In this instance, legislators here -- who claim to be strict constitutionalists -- seem fairly willing to ignore what is commonly called the "supremacy clause" of the U.S. Constitution (as well as the Fourteenth Amendment), and which more or less say that federal law supersedes state law.

A state or a person can challenge such laws in court. But a state can't on its own simply declare a federal law to be unconsitutional.

Legislators who propose such things often are quietly patted on the heads and laughed off by their colleagues.

In our case, however, the legislation is being proposed by, among others, Sen. Pearce, the most powerful person in state government.

So, as wacky as the proposal is, that makes it much less of a laughing matter.

Wednesday, February 2, 2011 at 11:57 AM

The Mad Crapper · 02-02-2011, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71

I've had a relationship with a beautiful girl for six years now.

Does she mock the Church's teachings and mock those people who live out the Church's teachings precisely for living out those teachings?

**petegz28** · 02-02-2011, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John

Experience in the system vs. theory. It's like asking how a pro football player knows more about football than a fan.

Great analogy. He won't get it, but still.

Jenson71 · 02-02-2011, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John

LOL

Experience in the system vs. theory. It's like asking how a pro football player knows more about football than a fan.

This was never about theory, by the way. This was never about theory. Your economic religion is more theory than my posts here.

There is some delicious irony in this post.

The Mad Crapper · 02-02-2011, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71

This was really a good decision for me. I enjoy what I'm doing and I want to be a lawyer. I'm not doing it to become rich. I know I will be in debt for a while and I'm fine with that.

**petegz28** · 02-02-2011, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71

This was never about theory, by the way. This was never about theory. Your economic religion is more theory than my posts here.

There is some delicious irony in this post.

Yes, it is all about theory, on your end. Because you have no real life experience otherwise.

Jenson71 · 02-02-2011, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Because your opinions are based on nothing other than words in a book. You have not yet to feel the impacts of politics.

For example, you have no clue of how the HC bill is impacting people because you don't pay for your insurance. I liken you to a person who paper trades the stock market. Does all this studying and research, puts togeter a winning model and brags about their system but yet has no money on the table. You'd be surprised at how quickly people change once they have a dog in the fight.

So tell us, Jenson, how has the HC bill impacted your bottom line? How has it impacted your ability to provide for yourself and your family?

How do you feel about your company putting a freeze on raises as the Fed Gov passes bills left and right that jack up your cost of living?

How did you feel when you and 1,000's of your co-workers got laid off while the Fed Gov bailed out the Union workers?

How did you feel when you lost your job because it was shipped overseas?

Political opinions aren't about how depressed or happy you feel. Good political opinions are based on stats and knowledge about the real world.

I'm not asking you about your emotional psychology and why or how you've had more experience. I'm asking why those experiences have made your political opinions better than mine.

Jenson71 · 02-02-2011, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mad Crapper

Does she mock the Church's teachings and mock those people who live out the Church's teachings precisely for living out those teachings?

No. But you do.

You mock the Church's teachings and mock those people who live out the Church's teachings precisely for living out those teachings.

Taco John · 02-02-2011, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71

This was never about theory, by the way. This was never about theory. Your economic religion is more theory than my posts here.

There is some delicious irony in this post.

Theory is all you have until you have to start paying taxes and providing for other people. You don't have to plan a grocery budget, a daycare budget, a mortgage payment, health insurance, two car payments, auto insurance, and then watch the government take a huge bite out of your ass while it sends soldiers to fight in pointless wars and wastes money on counter-productive social programs.

It's only about theory with you. That's all you've really got.

**petegz28** · 02-02-2011, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71

Political opinions aren't about how depressed or happy you feel. Good political opinions are based on stats and knowledge about the real world.

I'm not asking you about your emotional psychology and why or how you've had more experience. I'm asking why those experiences have made your political opinions better than mine.

What knowledge do you have about the "real world", Jenson? You can't see the forrest through the trees.

and yes, Jenson, lesson #1, people vote with their pocketbooks first and foremost.

Jenson71 · 02-02-2011, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Great analogy. He won't get it, but still.

I get it, and I agree with it. It doesn't apply to the situation though. And that was from the board's mouthpiece of an economic system that has never been put in place, but who know it's the truth

The Mad Crapper · 02-02-2011, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Yes, it is all about theory, on your end. Because you have no real life experience otherwise.

Don't worry, Pete. He will.

He's got it all figured out--- tier 1 law school, virgin bride in the hopper, $100,000 grand in student loan debt, a nice home, a new car...

It's going to be the American Dream, by golly.

Jenson71 · 02-02-2011, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John

Theory is all you have until you have to start paying taxes and providing for other people. You don't have to plan a grocery budget, a daycare budget, a mortgage payment, health insurance, two car payments, auto insurance, and then watch the government take a huge bite out of your ass while it sends soldiers to fight in pointless wars and wastes money on counter-productive social programs.

It's only about theory with you. That's all you've really got.

That's just your theory.

The Mad Crapper · 02-02-2011, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71

That's just your theory.

Jenson, do you predict anything bad will happen in your future? YOu know, like bad stuff that happens to other people.

Jenson71 · 02-02-2011, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

What knowledge do you have about the "real world", Jenson? You can't see the forrest through the trees.

and yes, Jenson, lesson #1, people vote with their pocketbooks first and foremost.

Some knowledge I have: the Civil War killed hundreds of thousands because some states thought they were bigger than the Union and didn't want to play the game.

That was from the real world. Great lesson, by the way. Not always true, but something to think about.

Taco John · 02-02-2011, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71

That's just your theory.

Have fun with that

02-02-2011, 02:24 PM
Taco John 12on Paul Join Date: Jun 2001 Casino cash: $10085242	Arizona posturing for de facto seccession File this under "nullification isn't as dead as some would like you to believe it is." http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/EJMontini/117684 E.J. Montini's Columns & Blog E.J. Montini is a columnist for The Arizona Republic. Arizona to secede (without OFFICIALLY doing so) Members of the state Legislature, including Arizona's de facto governor, Senate President Russell Pearce, have introduced a bill that essentially would have Arizona secede from the union without having to do so officially. Really. It's called SB1433, (See it here.) It creates a 12-member committee within the legislature that could "vote by simple majority to nullify in its entirety a specific federal law or regulation that is outside the scope of the powers delegated by the people to the federal government…" Committee members themselves would decide this, then pass along their recommendation to the full Legislature. If, in turn, a majority of state lawmakers go along with the committee then, according to the bill, "this state and its citizens shall not recognize or be obligated to live under the statute, mandate or executive order." The nullification committee also would be permitted to review all existing federal laws to see if our legislative geniuses want to toss them out as well. In every legislative session in every state throughout the land there are proposals like this, usually made by a few fringe members who know their proposal has no chance but file it anyway to serve some personal or political agenda. In this instance, legislators here -- who claim to be strict constitutionalists -- seem fairly willing to ignore what is commonly called the "supremacy clause" of the U.S. Constitution (as well as the Fourteenth Amendment), and which more or less say that federal law supersedes state law. A state or a person can challenge such laws in court. But a state can't on its own simply declare a federal law to be unconsitutional. Legislators who propose such things often are quietly patted on the heads and laughed off by their colleagues. In our case, however, the legislation is being proposed by, among others, Sen. Pearce, the most powerful person in state government. So, as wacky as the proposal is, that makes it much less of a laughing matter. Wednesday, February 2, 2011 at 11:57 AM
Posts: 49,409

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode