Mubarak Steps Down

[Jenson71]

'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'

Wild cheers erupted from tens of thousands of demonstrators in Cairo's Tahrir Square after word spread that Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has resigned. Demonstrators chanted "Egypt is free!" upon hearing the news.

http://www.cnn.com/

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/12/wo...t.html?_r=1&hp

[Donger]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I would say it never "all started" anywhere. The Middle East is a swarming collection of constantly evolving events and conditions. It's impossible to point to any one cause of any movement in the region.

But you acknowledge that Tunisia protest (with Egypt following) started with the self-immolation of the dude, right? If so, what evidence do you have that he was motivated in the slightest by what happen in Iran?

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by patteeu

Your sympathy is stronger with people half a world away who generally consider you a disgraceful infidel instead of with someone in your own country who makes it possible for you and millions of other Americans to get healthcare when you need it. There's something screwed up about that.

There is a huge difference between supporting people's right to freedom by ousting a corrupt and brutal dictator in their own country and supporting some insurance company.

[LaDairis]

Originally Posted by patteeu

Be honest, honey. You've been pumping LaDairis with positive rep since he arrived, haven't you? The anti-Israel connection is too strong for you to resist.

Don't want to lie to the US to manipulate the US into using the US military to wipe out all of Israel's enemies =

ANTI-ISRAEL


You are either going to be for using the US military to wipe out Israel's enemies, or ...

1. you won't get re-elected
2. Rupert Murdoch won't like you
3. we'll call you a "liberal..."

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by Donger

But you acknowledge that Tunisia protest (with Egypt following) started with the self-immolation of the dude, right? If so, what evidence do you have that he was motivated in the slightest by what happen in Iran?

I would say the boots on the ground protest started with that event, yes. But the guy who sacrificed himself did so in the face of the intense everyday frustration that everybody had felt in Tunisia.

The opening kickoff was going to come with or without the whistle, is what I'm saying. It just so happens that event was an amazing spark for the movement to ground itself in.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by Donger

But you acknowledge that Tunisia protest (with Egypt following) started with the self-immolation of the dude, right? If so, what evidence do you have that he was motivated in the slightest by what happen in Iran?

IMHO Iran was the blueprint..

[bowener]

Originally Posted by patteeu

You don't want to let healthcare insurers decide for themselves how to run their own businesses, but you're first at the ramparts to defend foreigners' right to choose an anti-American path. Brilliant.

[go bowe]

Originally Posted by The Mad Crapper

Just venturing a guess here, that back room smells like a rotten asshole.

and just how exactly would you know what a rotten asshole smells like?

[bowener]

Originally Posted by Donger

Hitler was fairly elected, dirk.

And so was Raegan, donger.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I know the thread has derailed, but I feel I must share what's on my heart in a couple sentences.

Iran's failure to overthrow their autocrats was a moral victory that put down an emotional deposit that Tunisia, Egypt, and soon other countries have started to cash. This is the progress liberalism in particular has been pining for, for ages.

This progress will bring more of the Middle East with it, it totally will. The only question will be when. It's possible that the entire region could democratize in a lifetime.

At that point, the world will continue to get so much smaller, peace will surely expand, freedom will reign, and justice will continue to attract the arc of history as it moves forward.

Peace be with Egypt.

When are you going to give due credit to GWBush and the neocons for departing from the decades-long stability-at-all-costs Middle East model?

[Donger]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I would say the boots on the ground protest started with that event, yes. But the guy who sacrificed himself did so in the face of the intense everyday frustration that everybody had felt in Tunisia.

The opening kickoff was going to come with or without the whistle, is what I'm saying. It just so happens that event was an amazing spark for the movement to ground itself in.

So, what happened in Iran had nothing to do with what we saw in Tunisia and are seeing in Egypt.

I understand you wanting them to be linked, but wanting something to be accurate isn't the same as fact.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by bowener

And so was Raegan, donger.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by LaDairis

Pat, bringing Harris, a player I admire, into this topic is wrong.

Harris is not debating here. He should be left out of the discussion entirely.

Is he not the reason you showed up at ChiefsPlanet to begin with? I'm not suggesting that he endorses you, but there's no more reason to leave Harris out of a discussion of what brought you here than there is to leave Hosni Mubarak out of a discussion of what's going on in Egypt.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by Donger

So, what happened in Iran had nothing to do with what we saw in Tunisia and are seeing in Egypt.

I understand you wanting them to be linked, but wanting something to be accurate isn't the same as fact.

You don't think people in Egypt watched what happened in Iran and learned from it?

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by patteeu

When are you going to give due credit to GWBush and the neocons for departing from the decades-long stability-at-all-costs Middle East model?

I give Bush immense credit for embracing a philosophy that supported democratizing the Middle East. I think that philosophy does come out and does pay dividends, even in the face of what I consider to be disasterous policy blunders and poisonous decisions that make the process more difficult than it needs to be.

No President before Bush paid stronger lip service or, however faulty, actual service, to liberating the Middle East than he did. Any credit to Americans for helping this process must be partially distributed to Bush.

But it wasn't his head in the way or a policeman's bullet. It wasn't his chest underneathe a camel hoof. And it wasn't his fight.

The hardest work was done, and the largest amount of the credit belongs, to the Egyptian people who have done superb work minimalizing personal harm & property, and maintaining their principles through the end.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

There is a huge difference between supporting people's right to freedom by ousting a corrupt and brutal dictator in their own country and supporting some insurance company.

Right, one is an anti-American change in the global political alignment and the other is just a guy doing his job to help Americans. It's a shame you side with the former.