Mubarak Steps Down

[Jenson71]

'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'

Wild cheers erupted from tens of thousands of demonstrators in Cairo's Tahrir Square after word spread that Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has resigned. Demonstrators chanted "Egypt is free!" upon hearing the news.

http://www.cnn.com/

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/12/wo...t.html?_r=1&hp

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by Frankie

Ahead technologically? economically? Democracy-wise? Socially? Culturally?

"Any" criteria? Really?!

Defending that 3rd century shit hole and the crazed monsters who run it must get old after a while.

[HonestChieffan]

Originally Posted by Frankie

Not ready to celebrate yet. I want to see who will be in charge long term. Right now a torturing potential despot is in charge. Not a very hopeful sign.

If the U.S. is really concerned about the people of Egypt she needs to figure out how they can help prevent any potential authoritarian element from hi-jacking their revolution.

I thought all the libs said we need to mind our own business. Has anyone from Egypt asked for Obama to help?

[LaDairis]

As with the Yeltsin brief revolution in Russia, the "deciding factor" was not the top of the military, but an overwhelming majority of those in uniform.

That is identical to the Egypt situation, except there is no Yeltsin type figure leading it.

If you like fear, keep watching FIXED. Most of us who read our founding fathers' writings are very pleased with the Egyptian people so far, very low body count for such a dictator removal.

[LaDairis]

What was the chant?

Well, I don't speak the language, but it was translated as "the people and the military are one."

And out went Mubarack...

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by HonestChieffan

I thought all the libs said we need to mind our own business. Has anyone from Egypt asked for Obama to help?

You thought wrong. The libs say we should allow or help the PEOPLE of other countries to build their democracy without being Greeks with gifts.

Case in point, in the early 50s Iran the U.S. and England should have welcomed Dr. Mosaddegh and the secular movement toward Democracy. Other countries, depending on their own situations, may require different strategies by us IF we 'truly' want them to become democracies.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by Frankie

You thought wrong. The libs say we should allow or help the PEOPLE of other countries to build their democracy without being Greeks with gifts.

Case in point, in the early 50s Iran the U.S. and England should have welcomed Dr. Mosaddegh and the secular movement toward Democracy. Other countries, depending on their own situations, may require different strategies by us IF we 'truly' want them to become democracies.

We don't particularly want them to become communist democracies, and we definitely didn't want Iran to become one in the heart of the cold war.

Freedom and socialism are not the same.

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by patteeu

We don't particularly want them to become communist democracies, and we definitely didn't want Iran to become one in the heart of the cold war.

You do realize that the connection made between Mosaddegh and the Tudeh (communist) party there was fiction propagated by the CIA and welcomed by the Tudeh party, don't you.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by Frankie

Define "ahead."

Not welcoming back a religious leader, and then being surprised when said religious leader became a religious leader?

[LaDairis]

"We don't particularly want them to"

....

....


The worst thing we can do is try to tell them what to do. We are supposed to support freedom and democracy in the US. The Egyptians have just overthrown a 30 year tyrant without a large body count. The US should cheer and salute, nothing more. If Egyptians want advice, then they can ask for it.

Of course, endlessly telling just about everybody what they can and cannot do is what a certain demographic is all about, right pat...

Just take, for example, Mike Bloomberg. Saturday Night Live or something should pay for it - fly Mikey to Egypt to tell the Egyptians that the most important thing right now is to regulate the use of SALT in RESTAURANTS, "conservative Republican" Mikey's pet cause at the moment...

Do "Republicans" like you, pat, want to regulate salt in restaurants...

[LaDairis]

Originally Posted by patteeu

Freedom and socialism are not the same.

Then clearly you and every other supporter of W are 100% pure socialists...

and that W did more to curtail US freedoms than any recent US President is perfectly obvious, every time you go to an airport....

[The Mad Crapper]

Originally Posted by LaDairis

Then clearly you and every other supporter of W are 100% pure socialists...

and that W did more to curtail US freedoms than any recent US President is perfectly obvious, every time you go to an airport....

You really should direct all of your outstanding, brilliant prose to the proper authorities:

This 12th imam
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue,
Washington, D.C.

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by Donger

Not welcoming back a religious leader, and then being surprised when said religious leader became a religious leader?

Do you realize that something like 70% of Egyptians approve of stoning as punishment for certain "crimes?" The problem is education or lack thereof? Mostly in rural areas. If you casually inject "democracy" into such a society shouldn't there be some fear that the religious radicals might get a mandate by vote alone? Democracy is a great goal for Egypt, but not totally until mass education of some sort takes root.

Between now and then is were things are REALLY tricky. This is where the American foreign policy will leave either a positive or negative legacy. Let's hope for the former.

[go bowe]

Originally Posted by Frankie

Do you realize that something like 70% of Egyptians approve of stoning as punishment for certain "crimes?" The problem is education or lack thereof? Mostly in rural areas. If you casually inject "democracy" into such a society shouldn't there be some fear that the religious radicals might get a mandate by vote alone? Democracy is a great goal for Egypt, but not totally until mass education of some sort takes root.

Between now and then is were things are REALLY tricky. This is where the American foreign policy will leave either a positive or negative legacy. Let's hope for the former.

that almost sounds like requiring a literacy test before being allowed to vote...

democracy can be messy, but if everyone is equal, everyone gets a vote regardless of their level of education and/or modernity...

regardless of the outcome, popular elections are essential to any democracy...

[go bowe]

Originally Posted by The Mad Crapper

You really should direct all of your outstanding, brilliant prose to the proper authorities:

This 12th imam
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue,
Washington, D.C.

ok, that one made me chuckle a little...

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by go bowe

that almost sounds like requiring a literacy test before being allowed to vote...

democracy can be messy, but if everyone is equal, everyone gets a vote regardless of their level of education and/or modernity...

regardless of the outcome, popular elections are essential to any democracy...

I certainly agree. But the problem with the countries mentioned is they have a large majority of uneducated (predominantly rural) people whom the previous despots had no interest of educating. They naturally gravitate toward religion mostly in it's most fundamental form. The problem is successful revolutions are when secular, more educated middle class are behind the drive for democracy.

Ideally, I would think allowing only folks with at least a HS diploma to vote in the first couple of elections is the way to go with the notion that a more general right to vote is guaranteed after a decade when the initial seeds of long term democracy have taken roots. Doable? I don't know. Ideal? Yes, IMO.