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Old 04-25-2011, 03:51 PM  
keg in kc keg in kc is offline
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Game of Thrones (spoiler-free zone)

A few have suggested it, might as well test the waters. The idea is to give people who haven't read the books a safe place to talk about the show.

A few quick ground rules:
  • No Spoilers!!!!! for upcoming episodes.
  • Larger Song of Ice and Fire discussion should be limited to the other thread although I think a tiny bit of book delving to fill in holes should be okay (example of this would be talking about Catelyn and her treatment of the wolves in the novel, which was alluded to on TV but never really made clear...)
  • Everything that happened that week is fair game once an episode airs. So if you don't watch on Sunday night, I'd stay outta here until you do...
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Old 06-10-2013, 07:49 AM   #1366
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Grey Wind's head sewed on to Robb's body was pretty gruesome, and of course Arya sees it. Arya kiling that guy was pretty brutal. And Ygritte did not take kindly to Jon ditching her for his NW brothers. Balon Greyjoy is an ass.
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:22 AM   #1367
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No need to publicly spoil [though feel free publicly w/spoiler tags or PM if so moved], but I wonder if The Hound feels shame that his fear of fire cause him to turn the horse and position Arya to see the King of the North being paraded.
If you paid attention, Tywin was quietly preparing this coup all season, most prominently preparing letters while debating Margeary's gammy.
Varys' eyeroll at l'il king sleepypants was sublime. On par with Ted's bulging sockets when Don was supplicating GM execs.
Who knew that Brann had seen the South Park Scott Tenorman episode.
Blackfish ascendant, Keilbasa for breakfast waning.
Ramsey's exerting a name change of Theon redefined Reek as a two pump chump.
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Old 06-10-2013, 05:45 PM   #1368
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'Game of Thrones' Season 3 finale ratings: Second most-watched episode ever

By Geoff Berkshire

June 10, 2013 2:26 PM ET

HBO's "Game of Thrones" Season 3 finale continued the show's recent surge in the ratings and drew the second largest audience ever for a first run airing.

5.4 million viewers tuned in to "Mhysa" to witness the fallout from last week's much-buzzed-about "Red Wedding" episode. That falls just short of the season's peak viewership: The 5.5 million viewers who tuned in for episode six, "The Climb."

The fantasy saga has shown steady and impressive ratings growth through its first three seasons. Season 3 averaged 5.16 million viewers for first run episodes, up from Season 2's average of 3.8 million viewers and Season 1's 2.52 million viewers.

HBO also reported a average audience of 13.6 million viewers for "Game of Thrones" Season 3 over all network airings, on demand, HBO Go and DVR, an increase of two million viewers from Season 2.
http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethe...sode-ever.html
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:06 PM   #1369
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"I WILL NEVER WATCH THIS SHOW AGAIN!!!!""

{plops on couch 7 days later}

I'd say this worked out alright for HBO...
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:09 PM   #1370
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
"I WILL NEVER WATCH THIS SHOW AGAIN!!!!""

{plops on couch 7 days later}

I'd say this worked out alright for HBO...
Yep. And there is a shit ton of good stuff left for next year.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:22 PM   #1371
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If you saw the "Inside the Episode" about the Red Wedding, they talk about how when they created the show they were just hoping it would survive long enough to get to it. I'd say they're doing alright.
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:03 PM   #1372
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I stole this from another message board I go to. It's a nice geek level summary of where things stand heading into next season:



This episode was the moment Game of Thrones finally became A Song of Ice and Fire and you could catch a glimpse of the full scope of the story and begin to understand whats really tying it all together. From the War of the Five Kings in Westeros, to the far East where Dany is conquering cities, to the far North where (unknown to most of Westeros) the real war has begun against the White Walkers, and back to King's Landing where the Lannisters have consolidated their power at this point. It's all starting to take shape and make sense. This was more than the Season 3 finale, this was the end of Act 1. Like last season, I want to recap the big events so far and lay out the state of the game.


The War of the Five Kings

So far, the show has been dominated by the War of the Five Kings and it has been the driving force in every storyline but Dany and Jon's. The war truly started in the first season when Catelyn took Tyrion prisoner and the Lannisters responded by attacking the Riverlands. When King Robert died, the powder keg exploded and everyone was out for themselves. Five kings were crowned and the realm was irrevocably torn apart as lands and villages burned and ancient Houses lost their titles and were pushed to extinction. Let's look at each region and their king and how they fared.


The North & The Riverlands

When the lords of the North and the Riverlands crowned Robb Stark as their king, the Northern army was in Riverrun while the bulk of the Lannister forces were on the other side of the river having been duped by Robb's fake intel and not expecting the Freys to allow Robb to cross. From there, King Robb took his army, the strongest contingents being the Tullys, Boltons, Freys and Karstarks, and marched west in order to drive the Lannisters back toward their homelands. At that time, their main intent was to break away from the kingdom and return things to the old way that had existed before the Targaryens conquered the Seven Kingdoms and unified them under the Iron Throne and for a while their cause gave them the strength to win every battle and drive the Lannisters back to the mountains.

At that point, the North was really rolling as Lord Tywin had to hold his army back and remain in the East where both of the Baratheon brothers were fighting for control of the large army that had assembled to march on King's Landing. As Robb nears Casterly Rock, Tywin knows he has to move or lose his own lands and begins to march across the Riverlands but is surprisingly pushed back by an ambush led by Ser Edmure Tully who had led his Riverlands forces through hidden trails and crossings known only to the locals. Caught off guard and blocked from his lands, Tywin manages to make contact with the Tyrells and use their hatred of Stannis to form a new alliance and race to King's Landing where they arrive just in time to save the city.

As it turns out, Robb's strategy had been to force Tywin to decide between Casterly Rock and King's Landing and hope that he march west to preserve the Lannister homelands and legacy and leave the Iron Throne to the Baratheon brothers. Tywin marches west, Stannis takes King's Landing, the Lannisters claim is destroyed and the war is essentially over...but it didn't work out that way. Unaware of the plan, Edmure Tully had managed to outwit both Tywin and Robb and stop the Lannister forces from crossing his lands. This played a huge role in deciding the battle in King's Landing and ultimately the fate of the war itself by driving the Lannisters right back toward the capital and bringing about the insurmountable Tyrell/Lannister alliance that smashes Stannis and steals the remainder of his troops.

While all of this goes on, the Ironborn secede for the second time in a decade and attack the sparsely populated western shore in the North. Theon Greyjoy, who had left Robb as a friend determined to forge an alliance between the North and Iron Islands, returns as a dangerous enemy who uses his knowledge of Northern strength and strategy to capture Winterfell. Robb orders Roose Bolton to have his bastard son lead the last real fighting force in the North to Winterfell and capture Theon at all costs. They siege the castle until the Ironborn surrender and hand over an unconscious Theon. Then, for reasons not understood by the sane, Ramsay decides to flay all of the Ironborn and put Winterfell and it's occupants to the torch.

At this point, the Northern lords who really understood the world knew that they had lost. They had a king who was fighting an entire kingdom and who had no kingdom of his own. What's worse, Robb had used the downtime to wed another woman and break his vows to the Freys and crippling his ability to attack the west. It was all they could do to fall back to the Riverlands and attempt to hold them from outside invasion. For Lords Karstark and Bolton, it became too much and both men turned on their king in very different ways. Lord Karstark abandoned the cause for independence and sought only revenge for the deaths of his sons, maybe he felt the walls closing in and decided to take his vengeance while he was still alive and had the opportunity but for whatever reason he snaps and kills Robb's remaining hostages. The act results in his execution and the collapse of Karstark support, crippling the Northern army even further.

Lord Bolton on the other hand takes a very different approach. While it appears that he did not directly order the sack of Winterfell, it's pretty obvious that he knew about it afterwards and withheld details from the Starks, at which point his scheming would have been in full throttle. With Winterfell out of the picture, Bolton's Dreadfort is now the strongest castle in the North and Ramsay and his men are the most powerful army so Lord Roose is literally ruling the North right under Robb's nose. While all of that is going on, Roose manages to join in on the correspondence between Walder Frey and Tywin Lannister and is brought in on their plan to assassinate Robb. In the end, the Freys and Boltons agree to assassinate Robb and in return receive the powerful titles that the Tullys and Starks had possessed and full pardons for their parts in the war.

Eventually Robb's need to march on the Lannisters and deliver a huge blow becomes too great and he is virtually forced to chase after the Freys loyalty and walk into the trap at the Twins. Lord Bolton is only too happy to personally make sure the Starks are completely out of the way and the Red Wedding utterly destroys the Northern resistance and any idea of a return to the old kingdoms. Bolton is named the Warden of the North and will rule the North until the hypothetical heir of Sansa Stark comes of age. Walder Frey is Lord of the Riverlands and his family is given Riverrun.


Iron Islands

The Iron Islands role in this war goes back a decade ago when they tried to secede the first time. With the Targaryens dead and dusted and Robert Baratheon a newly crowned usurper king, Balon Greyjoy decided that the realm iof Westeros was at an end and that the Ironborn should return to the Old Way of pillage and piracy under the worship of their Drowned God of the sea. The priests poured some sea water on his head and said some prayers and then crowned him king of the Iron Islands and promised a rule greater than Harren the Black's some three centuries earlier.

First order of business was burning the Lannister fleet at Fair Isle and attacking the Rivermen at Seagard. It was a blunderous move as it drove the Lannisters and Tullys further into Robert's arms and united the rest of Westeros firmly behind the new king and in these days, Robert was still in NFL-shape and literally known for smashing people with a big ass hammer. So now the army heads to the Iron Islands under Robert, Ned and Tywin and of course they wreck shop on the little islands and conquer them completely. Balon gives up his crown and gives his son Theon over as a hostage and the Iron Islands rejoins the realm.

Fast-forward to the second season and Robb has sent Theon home in order to negotiate an alliance between the two former enemies despite his mother's misgivings. Robb is only sixteen and Theon was his friend so I can understand why he did what he did but understanding the first rebellion really illustrates what a bad, naive move this was for the Young Wolf. The Ironborn weren't the slightest bit interested in his proposal and with their hostage returned safely home, they are free to attack Westeros without retribution. Balon crowns himself king once more and sends his fleet out to reave and conquer. This time however, he skips the rich lands of the south and sends his men to the cold, sparsely populated western shore in the North, where he knows he will find little resistance as everyone is fighting in the south.

The Ironborn hit the Stony Shore like a hurricane and quickly grab up all western castles. One general captures Moat Cailin, the gateway to the North and seals it off from the south. No army has ever taken the North by marching up the southern roads so this move essentially shuts Robb out of his lands. Yara Greyjoy captures Deepwood Motte in the far north and Theon manages to capture Torrhen's Square. When the men in Winterfell ride out to retake Torrhen's Square, Theon leads his men to Winterfell and captures it in a sneaky night attack. He doesn't have the men to hold it but the move itself essentially shatters the North and helps trigger the Starks ultimate demise in the south. King Balon is content with his new territories and refuses to send any more men than necessary to defend the western shore; if Theon wants Winterfell, he'll have to hold it on his own.

Robb orders Roose Bolton to have his bastard son Ramsay lead whatever men are left and retake Winterfell and to capture Theon at all costs. Ramsay surrounds the castle and gets the Ironborn to surrender Theon and the castle in exchange for safe passage home, but then he decides to completely destroy the castle and kill everyone he finds inside. Winterfell is burned, the Ironborn there are flayed and Theon is Ramsay's prisoner. Just how much of this he relates to his father is unclear but he has almost by accident made House Bolton the most capable and powerful House of the North and it greatly influences events in the south.

After the Red Wedding, House Bolton has made their stranglehold on power official and begins to turn their attention to the Ironborn still occupying the North. King Balon receives a threatening letter from Ramsay revealing his torture of Theon and demanding that all former Stark lands along the western shore be returned to the Boltons. Balon scoffs at this threat and won't let his new territory be taken for anything less than the Iron Price.

What the show leaves out, puzzlingly, is that Balon has also been in touch with Tywin Lannister and the Small Council in King's Landing. All along, the Greyjoy endgame has been an independent Iron Islands with small colonies on their newly acquired territory in the North and they think their part in bringing down the Starks is payment enough to seal a peace agreement and can't figure out why Lord Tywin doesn't take the deal until the Red Wedding removes the Starks entirely and renders that plan useless as the Lannisters have the Boltons in the North and no need of an independent Iron Islands.

The Greyjoys have been on the back burner for most of the war but with Renly and Robb dead and Stannis all but beaten, the Lannisters and their new allies, House Bolton, can finally turn up the heat and drive out the occupation forces on the western shore. Right now, the Greyjoys hold Moat Cailin which has never been taken from the south and thus have a big advantage over Lord Roose who is virtually trapped at the Twins with his army and whatever remains of Robb and Lord Karstark's men.


The Reach & the Stormlands

The most surprising king to emerge from the chaos of Robert's death was his youngest brother Renly, who crowned himself king and wed Margaery Tyrell as his queen to secure the support of the Reach. His reign, however, was short lived and he was cut down by a magical assassin's blade sent from his brother. When Renly died, it drove all of the Baratheon forces over to Stannis as he was the rightful heir of Storm's End and the last remaining Baratheon but the Tyrells pulled away and kept their forces on the border instead of marching with Stannis.

Using Littlefinger as an emissary, the Tyrells reach out to the Lannisters and make inquiries about a possible alliance. I don't think it was until Tywin was pushed back by Edmure's army that he decided to go ahead with the Tyrell option and marry Joffrey to Margaery in exchange for their support. The Lannister and Tyrell armies join together and march on King's Landing just in time to take Stannis in the rear. (hehe) Ser Loras Tyrell puts on Renly's famous green armor and carries his banner into the fight, confusing the men of the Stormlands into thinking Renly's ghost is marching with the Lannisters and resulting in a mass desertion of Stannis. The battle comes to a rapid conclusion and Stannis is pushed back out into the sea.

With their initial force in and around King's Landing and with additional troops marching north to support the Lannisters, the Tyrell involvement in this mess is only getting started. They send the matriarch of the family, Lady Olenna, to King's Landing in order to finalize all negotiations and marriages between the two Houses and to keep an eye on the slippery Lannisters. Lady Olenna proves more than capable and is quickly cutting deals with all of the players in the city while her granddaughter sets about the even more difficult task of controlling King Joffrey.

Despite their initial successes and the natural ability to play the "game" the Tyrells are eventually foiled in their attempt to marry Sansa Stark to House Tyrell and secure a foothold in the North. The Lannisters, especially Cersei, take this move to be an open attempt to seize power for themselves and steal the kingdom fro her children. In response, they marry Sansa to Tyrion and get their own foothold in the North, at the same time, they arrange for Cersei to marry Loras in order to bring the Houses closer together and prevent things from falling apart.
With the end of the Northern rebellion, the Lannister's power becomes even more pronounced and the Royal Wedding looms large as the bulk of the fighting has ceased as Lannister, Tyrell and Frey troops secure all rebel territories and reopen roads and supply lines. Despite the best wishes of any reluctant brides, there are no more distractions or obstacles to holding a big wedding and putting the War behind them. In the books, the wedding is set for New Year's Day and they begin the elaborate preparations/celebrations.


Dragonstone

Despite the magic of the Red Priestess Melisandre, King Stannis has been thwarted time and time again. First he was denied Storm's End by Renly and betrayed by his own bannermen in the Stormlands, then he was cheated out of his victory at King's landing by the combined forces of the Lannisters and Tyrells. He returns to Dragnstone and attempts to figure out another way to beat the Lannisters but there is no escaping that his strength as a military threat has almost completely diminished. The Lannisters don't even bother to sail out and retake Dragonstone, why waste the men?

Stannis is forced to admit defeat and accept the supernatural help of Melisandre as the only way to the Iron Throne. He allows her to sail to Westeros and track down Gendry in the Riverlands. She brings him back to Dragonstone and reveals his lineage to him. Her purpose is to use his royal blood to power her magic and help Stannis become king but she is undermined by Davos Seaworth who releases Gendry from his cell and gives him a boat to escape with. He tells him to lay low and avoid any trouble that might reveal him to Melisandre.

Davos, who has been learning to read, receives a warning from the Night's Watch and passes it on to Stannis at the last moment. The letter changes everything for the crew on Dragonstone and shifts their focus toward the long game as opposed to scheming to get back to King's Landing. I don't know exactly where they plan on taking this story as they have moved a lot of the events around and kinda screwed up the timing of Stannis' story but I'm sure they'll wedge it in there seamlessly.

Of all the claimants to the Throne, the best suited to get that letter from the Watch is certainly Stannis, who puts duty and service above all else. The only problem with Stannis heloing the Watch right now is the same problem he has getting to King's Landing...no men, no followers and only a few ships.


The Iron Throne


King Joffrey may not be the most capable or popular king that Westeros has seen but he just might be the luckiest. Without leading any troops or winning any battles, Joffrey has established a powerful hold on power in the Seven Kingdoms and the threat of his grandfather is enough to make most of the nobility go along quietly...but for how long?

Already there are cracks forming in the relationship between the Lannisters and the Tyrells. Cersei is determined not to wed Ser Loras at what seems like any cost and has threatened Margaery with violence in a church. Lady Olenna plots and schemes at almost every turn and it is all Lord Tywin can do to keep things from going sour. It seems like both families know that they don't want to be around one another but are so far willing to grit their teeth and play nice until Joffrey and Margaery are wed.

With the North dealt with, the Lannisters seem to hold all the cards but Tyrion has so far refused to cooperate with his father's wishes regarding Sansa Stark and none of the marriages that will seal their alliance have taken place yet. There can be no doubt as to who won the War of the Five Kings but it remains to be seen how well they handle that victory and the spoils that come with it. For now, it appears that life in King's Landing can go back to the way it was before the war but if they don't tread carefully and they could be right back in another one.

Last edited by Hawk; 06-10-2013 at 10:17 PM..
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:11 PM   #1373
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Old 06-11-2013, 04:01 AM   #1374
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Yep. And there is a shit ton of good stuff left for next year.
That will be the season. Can't wait
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:07 PM   #1375
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That will be the season. Can't wait
WTF?
Spoiler!
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If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:11 PM   #1376
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WTF?
Spoiler!
Books 4 and 5 happen at the same time. Just from different characters point of view.

Next season of the show, is the second half of book 3.

(A LOT happened in book 3)
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:15 PM   #1377
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
WTF?
Spoiler!
I'll answer this outside the spoiler since I don't think it really gives away anything in the story. Books 4/5 (A Feast for Crows/A Dance with Dragons) are on parallel timelines, but split into two groups of characters. Basically, GRRM had so many different character arcs going that he couldn't figure out how to squeeze them both into one book. So yes, that's correct. But that doesn't mean they were eliminated from the story by any means.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:15 PM   #1378
DaFace DaFace is offline
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Originally Posted by KcMizzou View Post
Books 4 and 5 happen at the same time. Just from different characters point of view.

Next season of the show, is the second half of book 3.

(A LOT happened in book 3)
Yeah - that too.
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Old 06-12-2013, 07:55 AM   #1379
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For those who have not read the books but want to, I found it MUCH more enjoyable reading books 4 and 5 together rather than reading book 4 first and book 5 second. The story and timeline just flows better that way, and it is more enjoyable not to have three of my favorite characters be missing for a big chunk since they were not in Book 4. It's also just weird because Book 5 picks up immediately after the end of Book 3 for those characters, which is just confusing after having read all of book 4 and being further along in the timeline for the rest of the characters. Not sure why GRRM did it that way, but I didn't really like it.

There are chapter lists out there (i.e. on Tower of the Hand website) that give you a chapter order for reading books 4 and 5 together. My wife did this when she read them (and I did my re-read of the books that way), and it works better IMO. And of course the show will have to do it that way and combine books 4 and 5. In fact i am pretty sure we'll get a little bit of book 5 at the end of next season even though most of next season will be the second half of book 3. Love GRRM, but that split characters approach to books 4 and 5 was not the best idea.

Here is the link for those that want to read them together.

http://boiledleather.com/post/259025...ng-order-for-a

Last edited by Hawk; 06-12-2013 at 08:02 AM..
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Old 06-12-2013, 07:15 PM   #1380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace View Post
I'll answer this outside the spoiler since I don't think it really gives away anything in the story. Books 4/5 (A Feast for Crows/A Dance with Dragons) are on parallel timelines, but split into two groups of characters. Basically, GRRM had so many different character arcs going that he couldn't figure out how to squeeze them both into one book. So yes, that's correct. But that doesn't mean they were eliminated from the story by any means.
okay I've ordered the books. Should I read book 3, then book 4/5 together or start with book 1?
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If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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