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Old 05-02-2011, 01:47 PM  
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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Using Waterboarding to Hunt Terrorists....now on CD

By Tim Ross 7:02PM BST 02 May 2011 Follow Tim Ross on Twitter

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM), who was repeatedly subjected to methods including “waterboarding” and stress positions, provided the CIA with the name of bin Laden’s personal courier, according to US officials.

A second source – also an al-Qaeda “leader” held at Guantanamo Bay – then confirmed the courier’s identity, sparking an intense manhunt that resulted in the dramatic final raid.

Secret documents seen by The Daily Telegraph disclose that this second source – the terrorist operations chief, Abu Faraj al-Libi – played a key role in finding “safe havens” for bin Laden and lived in the military town where he was finally found.

The killing of the world’s most wanted man as a direct result of information obtained from Guantanamo detainees such as KSM will reignite the debate over whether torture is a legitimate interrogation technique in the "war on terror". Both KSM and al-Libi were subjected to harsh techniques during their interrogations in CIA prisons.

Amnesty International has already warned that the killing of bin Laden must not be used as evidence that torture is “justifiable”.

Bin Laden went into hiding shortly after the 9/11 attacks and the White House has been criticised for a series of failures that meant he evaded capture for almost 10 years.

During his time as a fugitive, bin Laden’s communications with the outside world were handled by a network of trusted couriers, who carried letters to and from senior al-Qaeda commanders. Using a telephone or the internet would have been too risky as electronic communications were monitored by the US and its allies.

But the CIA revealed that American spies have also been watching many of bin Laden’s couriers for years.

“One courier in particular had our constant attention,” a senior US government official said. “We identified him as both a protege of Khaled Sheikh Mohammed and Abu Faraj al-Libi.”

American spies learned his name four years ago; two years later they pinpointed the general region where he was hiding. Still, it was not until August when they tracked him to the compound in Abbotabad.

Secret US government files on the Guantanamo detainees disclose that al-Libi had several dealings with one key courier for bin Laden, who may be the same aide that led the US to the compound where the al-Qaeda leader was killed.

Al-Libi’s Guantanamo file, dated 10 September 2008, states: “In July 2003, detainee [al-Libi] received a letter from UBL’s designated courier, Maulawi Abd al-Khaliq Jan, requesting detainee take on the responsibility of collecting donations, organizing travel, and distributing funds to families in Pakistan.

“UBL stated detainee would be the official messenger between UBL and others in Pakistan.”

In mid-2003, al-Libi “moved his family to Abbottabad, PK and worked between Abbottabad and Peshawar,” according to the file.

In 2001 and 2003, he arranged “save havens” for bin Laden and his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, who is currently still at large.

It may not be a coincidence that the “safe haven” where bin Laden was finally caught was in the Pakistani garrison town where al-Libi lived in 2003.

Al-Libi’s file states that he had several further attempted contacts with the courier and set up a shop front to be used as a “drop point” for the meetings in April 2005, one month before he was captured. The courier's name does not appear in KSM's Guantanamo file.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...uantanamo.html

Please oh please let this be true.

Last edited by mlyonsd; 05-02-2011 at 01:53 PM..
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:48 PM   #2
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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I wonder if this is one of the reasons Obama has flipped on shutting GITMO down?
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:56 PM   #3
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They got the name in 2007, well after the waterboarding supposedly stopped. Isn't that right?
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Old 05-02-2011, 02:00 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
I wonder if this is one of the reasons Obama has flipped on shutting GITMO down?
Ah yes. The difference between being a candidate for POTUS and being POTUS.
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Old 05-02-2011, 02:03 PM   #5
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This is surfacing all over the right wing sites about this courier and waterboarding....as if they couldn't get it some other way.
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Old 05-02-2011, 02:35 PM   #6
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange View Post
They got the name in 2007, well after the waterboarding supposedly stopped. Isn't that right?
Don't know, hopefully the facts will eventually come out so we know if he gave up the info during 'torture' or after, when he was probably thinking please don't do that to me again.
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Old 05-02-2011, 02:42 PM   #7
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange View Post
They got the name in 2007, well after the waterboarding supposedly stopped. Isn't that right?
KSM and others gave a nickname and they found out the courier's real name 4 years ago but not in Gitmo.

Quote:
A new lead emerged when post-9/11 detainees gave investigators a glimpse into the al Qaeda chief's inner circle, the official said. During questioning, detainees repeatedly mentioned the nickname of a man they said was one of the few couriers bin Laden trusted.

That was the beginning of what President Barack Obama's top counterterrorism adviser described as a painstaking process.

"From the nickname, we tried to find out his real name," a senior U.S. official familiar with the operation said. "It was classic espionage and intel work."
Investigators knew the courier -- a protege of 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed -- was "important," because a number of detainees held out on providing information about him, the senior U.S. official said.

U.S. intelligence uncovered the courier's identity four years ago "from a different part of the world," the senior U.S. official said. He declined to say where.

It took two more years to identify where the courier and his brother operated in Pakistan.
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:35 PM   #8
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
KSM and others gave a nickname and they found out the courier's real name 4 years ago but not in Gitmo.
Double or nothing Obama acted on intelligience at least partly gathered at GITMO.
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:47 PM   #9
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Something weird about you going "please oh please let this be true," because gathering actionable intelligence without needing torture is such a terrible thing, I suppose.

Please oh please tell me we MUST waterboard people! PLEASE.

The sweet addiction of partisanship has corrupted somebody's moral center here. I guess it must be mine.
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:49 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
KSM and others gave a nickname and they found out the courier's real name 4 years ago but not in Gitmo.
It seems that KSM was at those "black" CIA prisons in Eastern Europe when he squealed. I thought the leftist hated those even more than Gitmo?
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:51 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Something weird about you going "please oh please let this be true," because gathering actionable intelligence without needing torture is such a terrible thing, I suppose.

Please oh please tell me we MUST waterboard people! PLEASE.

The sweet addiction of partisanship has corrupted somebody's moral center here. I guess it must be mine.
You would prefer harsh language? How would you have extracted such information from those who didn't want to give it?
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:52 PM   #12
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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You would prefer harsh language?
In a stroke, you've once again missed the point. I'm going to do us both a favor and assume you're not being serious.

Have at, my friend.
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:54 PM   #13
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In a stroke, you've once against missed the point. I'm going to do us both a favor and assume you're not being serious.

Have at, my friend.
I'm being completely serious. I'll ask again:

How would you have extracted such information from those who didn't want to give it?

I'm asking for your opinion.
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:58 PM   #14
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I'm being completely serious. I'll ask again:

How would you have extracted such information from those who didn't want to give it?

I'm asking for your opinion.
That's not remotely close to the point I was making.

You're attempting to make a point off something I said on a separate matter.

When you're serious, and can construe my argument properly, I'll post when I feel like it.

Until then, and I'm serious, have at it.
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Old 05-02-2011, 06:00 PM   #15
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shows that this op has been going on for years and finally came to fruition.

lots of hours put in for a tremendous payoff.


major props to all involved behind the scenes.
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