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Old 05-08-2011, 04:57 AM  
Ugly Duck Ugly Duck is offline
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DCers weigh in on going after AQ without Pakistani permission:

Dirk recently opened the old thread "Bush Admin Passed On Chance To Raid Meeting Of Al Qaida Leaders" Published: July 8, 2007 WASHINGTON, July 7 — "A secret military operation in early 2005 to capture senior members of Al Qaeda in Pakistan’s tribal areas was aborted at the last minute after top Bush administration officials decided it was too risky and could jeopardize relations with Pakistan, according to intelligence and military officials. The target was a meeting of Al Qaeda’s leaders that intelligence officials thought included Ayman al-Zawahri, Osama bin Laden’s top deputy and the man believed to run the terrorist group’s operations."

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
I am glad we finally have POTUS with the balls big enough to pull off a raid in our ally Pakistan land and not even tell them. Unlike Bush who chickened out because he didn't want to offend them. Don't you agree Donger?
I pulled DCer reactions to the planned Obama-type raid that the Bush admin refused to execute. We are all lucky that Obama has more daring & hutzpah than these guys:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
This sounds like the Bush administration choosing to not piss off an "ally" by launching an attack within said ally's country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silock View Post
I'm all for going after Al Qaeda, but this could have potentially started another war. You don't just go invade someone's country looking for terrorists like that.
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Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco View Post
That would be an unacceptable violation of the sovereignty of a friendly nation.... I'm hoping we'd all have a problem with that.... Bottom line: It's Pakistan's call, and we can't violate the sovereignty of a friendly nation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
The US is balancing the good we get out of the (Pakistan) relationship with the bad and the limitations it puts on our actions in that region.
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Originally Posted by trndobrd View Post
If the mission was comprimised, ended up in a much bigger fight then expected, or ended up with a downed aircraft or something it would cause problems. At best it would dry up all support from the Musharaf government.
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Old 05-08-2011, 05:30 AM   #2
HolyHandgernade HolyHandgernade is offline
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I think it actually put teeth into the Bush Doctrine. Maybe next time the next country knows not to play this shell game with us anymore. If we couldn't trust them as an "ally", that's on that country, not us. I don't care how much posturing the said country does, if the U.S felt strongly enough this was the safest course of action, I don't think that country wants us to set a new course of action of demonstrating why and pushing us towards deciding whether said country was actually harboring terrorists.

That's why Pakistan can complain all it wants, but in the end won't do jack. The U.S. And Obama Administration knew this to make a calculated risk worth it. In one stroke, we told Pakistan, with tongue in cheek, "Thanks for your support. Next time, you better start minding you p's and q's who's really in charge and whether you would rather be on the receiving end of billions in aide or on the business end of what our defense program can do with it."
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Old 05-08-2011, 08:23 AM   #3
redsurfer11 redsurfer11 is offline
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Why was there a 9 month delay to get OBL? They knew where he was last August. Was it because Obama was indecisive or he wanted to play it for Political points?
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Old 05-08-2011, 08:29 AM   #4
HolyHandgernade HolyHandgernade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redsurfer11 View Post
Why was there a 9 month delay to get OBL? They knew where he was last August. Was it because Obama was indecisive or he wanted to play it for Political points?
I know in the movies its always perfect weather and the crack team is ready to go at a moment's notice, but in the real world, you actually try to gather as much information as you can, plan for the right season, and train often and methodically so it will hopefully go off without a hitch. Seal Team 6 represents a significant investment and I don't think the military reacts whimsically in the face of such a detailed and daunting task.
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Old 05-08-2011, 08:33 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redsurfer11 View Post
Why was there a 9 month delay to get OBL? They knew where he was last August. Was it because Obama was indecisive or he wanted to play it for Political points?
They have been gathering intelligence on the compound and watching it for 9 mos, but never had confirmation that he was there. It was around a 50-50 chance that OBL was there.
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Old 05-08-2011, 08:47 AM   #6
bsp4444 bsp4444 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redsurfer11 View Post
Why was there a 9 month delay to get OBL? They knew where he was last August. Was it because Obama was indecisive or he wanted to play it for Political points?
Horrible post.
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Old 05-08-2011, 08:50 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redsurfer11 View Post
... or he wanted to play it for Political points?
Please explain. Why would he put it off until after the election? You make no sense.
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Old 05-08-2011, 08:51 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by bsp4444 View Post
Horrible post.
Not the first and won't be the last of one clouded by political bias.
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Old 05-08-2011, 09:24 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redsurfer11 View Post
Why was there a 9 month delay to get OBL? They knew where he was last August. Was it because Obama was indecisive or he wanted to play it for Political points?
Uh, political points would have been October 2012.
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Old 05-08-2011, 09:48 AM   #10
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Obama did the right thing.

Get off his back.

I swear that if Obama cured Cancer people would complain about how he did it.
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Old 05-08-2011, 10:13 AM   #11
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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You highlighted the wrong part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly Duck View Post
Dirk recently opened the old thread "Bush Admin Passed On Chance To Raid Meeting Of Al Qaida Leaders" Published: July 8, 2007 WASHINGTON, July 7 — "A secret military operation in early 2005 to capture senior members of Al Qaeda in Pakistan’s tribal areas was aborted at the last minute after top Bush administration officials decided it was too risky and could jeopardize relations with Pakistan, according to intelligence and military officials. The target was a meeting of Al Qaeda’s leaders that intelligence officials thought included Ayman al-Zawahri, Osama bin Laden’s top deputy and the man believed to run the terrorist group’s operations."
Since none of us were there and know all the details debating the size of ones "balls" is just plain stupid and immature.
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Old 05-08-2011, 10:38 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notorious View Post
Obama did the right thing.

Get off his back.

I swear that if Obama cured Cancer people would complain about how he did it.
Cancer was cured in the 1950s. The government has just kept it around to get rid of political enemies and to keep all the sheeple in line.
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Old 05-08-2011, 10:51 AM   #13
Ugly Duck Ugly Duck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
You highlighted the wrong part. (Bush administration officials decided it was too risky and could jeopardize relations with Pakistan)
The risk obviously was pissing off Pakistan - if they thought it was "snatch & grab" that was too risky they cudda targeted a missile on the house. They missed a chance to nail the top generals of AQ cuz they were too timid to offend Pakistan. Candidate Obama announced that he would not exhibit such sensitivity & was thoroughly blasted by the Right Wing for his policy. The contrast between the Republican & the Obama policies is best illustrated by the gaping hole in bin Laden's forehead.
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Old 05-08-2011, 10:59 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly Duck View Post
The risk obviously was pissing off Pakistan - if they thought it was "snatch & grab" that was too risky they cudda targeted a missile on the house. They missed a chance to nail the top generals of AQ cuz they were too timid to offend Pakistan. Candidate Obama announced that he would not exhibit such sensitivity & was thoroughly blasted by the Right Wing for his policy. The contrast between the Republican & the Obama policies is best illustrated by the gaping hole in bin Laden's forehead.
Yeah, Obama/Panetta assassinated a suspect, according to the designation given BL by our FBI. I thought you guys were for putting these guys on trial?

Anyhow, Ayman al-Zawahri is the real operational master-mind of AQ—not binLaden. Bin Laden is more a figurehead. ( not saying I care if he's dead though)

As far as Pakistan goes, there is the seen and the unseen. We will never know if there was someone in Pakistan who knew about the operation because it would not be in Pakistan, or America's favor to have the information broad public issue for good reasons. I have a hard time believing 4 or so helicopters were undetected from Jalalabad to that town in Pakistan. Per what I read they have a pretty good detection system due to their considering India a threat.
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Old 05-08-2011, 11:02 AM   #15
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I am certain the helicopters where undetected.
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