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Old 05-19-2011, 11:46 AM  
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Many With New College Degree Find the Job Market Humbling

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/19/bu...gewanted=print

Many With New College Degree Find the Job Market Humbling

By CATHERINE RAMPELL

The individual stories are familiar. The chemistry major tending bar. The classics major answering phones. The Italian studies major sweeping aisles at Wal-Mart.

Now evidence is emerging that the damage wrought by the sour economy is more widespread than just a few careers led astray or postponed. Even for college graduates — the people who were most protected from the slings and arrows of recession — the outlook is rather bleak.

Employment rates for new college graduates have fallen sharply in the last two years, as have starting salaries for those who can find work. What’s more, only half of the jobs landed by these new graduates even require a college degree, reviving debates about whether higher education is “worth it” after all.

“I have friends with the same degree as me, from a worse school, but because of who they knew or when they happened to graduate, they’re in much better jobs,” said Kyle Bishop, 23, a 2009 graduate of the University of Pittsburgh who has spent the last two years waiting tables, delivering beer, working at a bookstore and entering data. “It’s more about luck than anything else.”

The median starting salary for students graduating from four-year colleges in 2009 and 2010 was $27,000, down from $30,000 for those who entered the work force in 2006 to 2008, according to a study released on Wednesday by the John J. Heldrich Center for Workforce Development at Rutgers University. That is a decline of 10 percent, even before taking inflation into account.

Of course, these are the lucky ones — the graduates who found a job. Among the members of the class of 2010, just 56 percent had held at least one job by this spring, when the survey was conducted. That compares with 90 percent of graduates from the classes of 2006 and 2007. (Some have gone for further education or opted out of the labor force, while many are still pounding the pavement.)

Even these figures understate the damage done to these workers’ careers. Many have taken jobs that do not make use of their skills; about only half of recent college graduates said that their first job required a college degree.

The choice of major is quite important. Certain majors had better luck finding a job that required a college degree, according to an analysis by Andrew M. Sum, an economist at Northeastern University, of 2009 Labor Department data for college graduates under 25.

Young graduates who majored in education and teaching or engineering were most likely to find a job requiring a college degree, while area studies majors — those who majored in Latin American studies, for example — and humanities majors were least likely to do so. Among all recent education graduates, 71.1 percent were in jobs that required a college degree; of all area studies majors, the share was 44.7 percent.

An analysis by The New York Times of Labor Department data about college graduates aged 25 to 34 found that the number of these workers employed in food service, restaurants and bars had risen 17 percent in 2009 from 2008, though the sample size was small. There were similar or bigger employment increases at gas stations and fuel dealers, food and alcohol stores, and taxi and limousine services.

This may be a waste of a college degree, but it also displaces the less-educated workers who would normally take these jobs.

“The less schooling you had, the more likely you were to get thrown out of the labor market altogether,” said Mr. Sum, noting that unemployment rates for high school graduates and dropouts are always much higher than those for college graduates. “There is complete displacement all the way down.”

Meanwhile, college graduates are having trouble paying off student loan debt, which is at a median of $20,000 for graduates of classes 2006 to 2010.

Mr. Bishop, the Pittsburgh graduate, said he is “terrified” of the effects his starter jobs might have on his ultimate career, which he hopes to be in publishing or writing. “It looks bad to have all these short-term jobs on your résumé, but you do have to pay the bills,” he said, adding that right now his student loan debt was over $70,000.

Many graduates will probably take on more student debt. More than 60 percent of those who graduated in the last five years say they will need more formal education to be successful.

“I knew there weren’t going to be many job prospects for me until I got my Ph.D.,” said Travis Patterson, 23, a 2010 graduate of California State University, Fullerton. He is working as an administrative assistant for a property management company and studying psychology in graduate school. While it may not have anything to do with his degree, “it helps pay my rent and tuition, and that’s what matters.”

Going back to school does offer the possibility of joining the labor force when the economy is better. Unemployment rates are also generally lower for people with advanced schooling.

Those who do not go back to school may be on a lower-paying trajectory for years. They start at a lower salary, and they may begin their careers with employers that pay less on average or have less room for growth.

“Their salary history follows them wherever they go,” said Carl Van Horn, a labor economist at Rutgers. “It’s like a parrot on your shoulder, traveling with you everywhere, constantly telling you ‘No, you can’t make that much money.’ ”

And while young people who have weathered a tough job market may shy from risks during their careers, the best way to nullify an unlucky graduation date is to change jobs when you can, says Till von Wachter, an economist at Columbia.

“If you don’t move within five years of graduating, for some reason you get stuck where you are. That’s just an empirical finding,” Mr. von Wachter said. “By your late 20s, you’re often married, and have a family and have a house. You stop the active pattern of moving jobs.”


Price of Obamunism So Far: $3,000,000,000,000
October 20, 2010

Let's hope liberals enjoyed the warm glow of self-righteousness they got from voting for the unqualified left-wing black guy with the name like a terrorist, because the price tag is astronomical and still rising:

New numbers posted [Monday] on the Treasury Department website show the National Debt has increased by more than $3 trillion since President Obama took office. …

The Administration has projected the National Debt will soar in Mr. Obama's fourth year in office to nearly $16.5-trillion in 2012. That's more than 100 percent of the value of the nation's economy and $5.9-trillion above what it was his first day on the job.

Not even a Harvard grad could be enough of a fool to think this can be sustained. By the time this nightmare is over, the names of Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven — progressives credited with inventing the strategy of imposing communism by collapsing the economy with excessive government spending — will be household names.

Meanwhile, the Marxist saboteur in the White House blames his predecessor for the debt, and uses it to justify further crippling the economy by letting taxes shoot into the stratosphere on January 1.


Barack Hussein Obama!

Mmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmm!



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Old 05-19-2011, 12:18 PM   #2
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Students...if you are not looking at the ROI of your degree then you shouldn't be going to college in the first place. If you say being a hournalist is your dream...then don't bitch about the cost or the debt.
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Old 05-19-2011, 12:23 PM   #3
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Hooray! My college degree won't be worth the paper it's printed on when I get done with school. Three cheers for my "investment."
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Old 05-19-2011, 12:24 PM   #4
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I just graduated with a BS in microbiology/biotechnology. I can fairly easily get a job in a lab from 30-40k a year (not great, but not horrible in this economy), but my goal has long been to get my Ph.D and do infectious disease research. going into grad school this fall, veterinary pathobiology. long story short, you have to know what you want and how to get there. if you get a degree in a field that isn't growing and in demand, you have to expect to be hurting a bit. know your limitations, and do your research. many out there aren't, and will suffer as a result.
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Old 05-19-2011, 12:53 PM   #5
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I had a very similar experience in 1983. I had a degree in chemical engineering and zero job prospects despite dozens of on campus interviews. Most of my classmates were also jobless. Just four years earlier (1979) when I started school chemE grads were getting 7-10 job offers each. Guess who the presidents were in 1979 and 1983?
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Old 05-19-2011, 01:09 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by SuperChief View Post
Hooray! My college degree won't be worth the paper it's printed on when I get done with school. Three cheers for my "investment."
Many are VERY in debt and living in their parents basement due to lack of jobs. Students can't even file for bankruptcy on student loans. Talk about involuntary servitude courtesy of the US govt.

"Hi! I'm from the government and I am here to help you."

Not to mention the scam on college books where the publishers put out new ones each year in cahoots with college bookstores which shows the colleges are more out for the buck than to help you get an education. Apply for scholarships, as many as 30 a year if you must have that college degree. I did this all year. It takes applying to many just to get one. I just nailed a housing scholarship for my kid and she has a smaller one toward tuition. I am waiting to hear on two more. * fingers crossed* Then I am taking in a roomate here to pay the balance. Plus I had her enter writing and art contests for big awards. Waiting to hear on those by July. I am determined to get her through with either no debt or very little debt. I may even go to grammy for a few grand but only as a last resort.

I say, use CLEP, dual enrollment, and as many AP classes as you can to knock off time and money while in HS. I got my kid through a college semester in her senior year. Or become an entrepreneur and skip it. Colleges mainly teach you to be an employee and not someone who is independent and who can create a new service, product or market.

Check out RateMyProfessor site and others like Myedu to see what professors are absolutely fricking lousy in gigantic auditoriums for classrooms. The investment isn't all what it's cracked up to be. Over time, the net will replace these mortar and brick institutions and go the way of the "horse n' buggy" because they are just not affordable; nor the investment they are claimed. ( except for a certain few professions) Before massive govt financial aid students were able to work their way through college without such massive debt. This is another thing that govt intervention in making things "affordable" made them more "expensive." It's a scam in many ways.
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Old 05-19-2011, 01:10 PM   #7
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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I just graduated with a BS in microbiology/biotechnology. I can fairly easily get a job in a lab from 30-40k a year (not great, but not horrible in this economy), but my goal has long been to get my Ph.D and do infectious disease research. going into grad school this fall, veterinary pathobiology. long story short, you have to know what you want and how to get there. if you get a degree in a field that isn't growing and in demand, you have to expect to be hurting a bit. know your limitations, and do your research. many out there aren't, and will suffer as a result.
And PhD's are in less demand which will continue. Not to mention how overrated they are in the market.
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Old 05-19-2011, 01:13 PM   #8
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I honestly think it's better to learn a trade and go through some apprenticeship than getting a random college degree. But I'm in college, but I'm more than halfway done so I may as well finish it, but it probably won't get me any great job.
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Old 05-19-2011, 01:15 PM   #9
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And PhD's are in less demand which will continue. Not to mention how overrated they are in the market.
eh, I'm not too worried. they're absolutely in demand in the research field; not many people going into research for BSL III and IV pathogens. it's a specialized field, fwiw.
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Old 05-19-2011, 01:16 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Many are indebt and living in their parents basement due to lack of jobs. Students can't even file for bankruptcy on student loans. Talk about involuntary servitude courtesy of the US govt.

"Hi! I'm from the government and I am here to help you."

Not to mention the scam on college books where the publishers put out new ones each year in cahoots with college bookstores which shows the colleges are more out for the buck than to help you get an education. Apply for scholarships, as many as 30 a year if you must have that college degree. I did this all year. It takes applying to many just to get one. I just nailed a housing scholarship for my kid. I am waiting to hear on two more. Then I am taking in a roomate. Plus I had her enter writing and art contests for big awards.

I say, use CLEP, dual enrollment, and as many AP classes as you can to knock off time and money. Or become an entrepreneur and skip it. Colleges mainly teach you to be an employee and not someone who is independent and who can create a new service, product or market.
Basically, I'm only here to get the piece of paper that can get my foot in the door. Funny enough, I'm an Economics major that's going into either Marketing, Advertising, or Public Relations post graduation. I like the Econ curriculum because it really challenges my analytical and critical thinking skills, which I assume is an invaluable asset to employers these days.
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Old 05-19-2011, 01:19 PM   #11
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Old 05-19-2011, 01:24 PM   #12
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Basically, I'm only here to get the piece of paper that can get my foot in the door. Funny enough, I'm an Economics major that's going into either Marketing, Advertising, or Public Relations post graduation. I like the Econ curriculum because it really challenges my analytical and critical thinking skills, which I assume is an invaluable asset to employers these days.
It's unfortunate, that employers think like this today. But some are changing their tune. The other unfortunate thing is that they teach a bit of misinformation and disinformation on economics in our universities unless your lucky enough to go to one where there are some courses in the Austrian school of economics. The marketing, advertising and public relations are useful though. However, I do think those can be learned on the job much faster if only we had an apprenticehip system where people could earn their way, while paying their dues. I know many who majored in something different and then went into these fields.

BTW I am in the advertising, marketing and PR industry but as a creative on the visual side. Heh! My degree was a BFA Illustration and I learned most of my GD on the job. Thank gawd, they go by the portfolio more than a degree.
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Old 05-19-2011, 01:27 PM   #13
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I honestly think it's better to learn a trade and go through some apprenticeship than getting a random college degree. But I'm in college, but I'm more than halfway done so I may as well finish it, but it probably won't get me any great job.
I went through this after graduation. Thank gawd, I had one professor who was very entrepreneurial and told us if we couldn't get a job to create one. That's what I ended up doing and it worked out eventually.


Whatever, you do don't let the military persuade you or you might end up dead fighting for a New World Order instead.
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Old 05-19-2011, 01:28 PM   #14
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eh, I'm not too worried. they're absolutely in demand in the research field; not many people going into research for BSL III and IV pathogens. it's a specialized field, fwiw.
I have a cousin graduating with a PhD in forensic anthropology with over $75k in debt and she doesn't know what she's going to do. You're lucky.

Maybe she could be a consultant for the TV show "Bones"! Or write a novel with a murder mystery involving a skeleton?
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Old 05-19-2011, 01:31 PM   #15
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