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Old 07-02-2011, 10:37 PM  
KILLER_CLOWN KILLER_CLOWN is offline
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HISTORY LESSON: What became of the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence?

Jefferson was fortunate. Many lost their lives as a consequence.

---

Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 signators of the Declaration of Independence?

Five signers were captured by the British as traitors, and tortured before they died. Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned. Two Lost their sons in the revolutionary army, another had two sons captured. Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or hardships of the revolutionary war.

They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor.

What kind of men were they? Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists.Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners, men of means, well educated. But they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty wouldbe death if they were captured.

Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader, saw his ships swept from the seas by the British Navy. He sold his home and properties to pay his debts, and died in rags.

Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move his family almost constantly. He served in the Congress Without pay, and his family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him, and poverty was his reward.

Vandals or soldiers or both, looted the properties of Ellery, Clymer, Hall, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and Middleton.

At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson Jr., noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters. The owner quietly urged General George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt.

Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months.

John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying.Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his grist mill were laid to waste. For more than a year he lived in forests and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his children vanished. A few weeks later he died from exhaustion and a broken heart. Norris and Livingston suffered similar fates.

Such were the stories and sacrifices of the American Revolution.These were not wild eyed, rabble-rousing ruffians. They were soft-spoken men of means and education. They had security, but they valued liberty more. Standing tall, straight, and unwavering, they pledged: "For the support of this declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of the divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."

http://pages.prodigy.net/constitution/129.html

http://dailybail.com/home/history-le...-the-decl.html
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Old 07-04-2011, 05:21 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
I use it on chain emails I wonder about~
Whenever I hear an odd rumor, or see a fluff piece containing a large amount of alleged factual information, I check Snopes. I have chain mails blocked.
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Old 07-04-2011, 05:28 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Whenever I hear an odd rumor, or see a fluff piece containing a large amount of alleged factual information, I check Snopes. I have chain mails blocked.
I used the wrong term. I get emails from friends and family that are political and are of the "Can you believe this???" type. I often reply with "No" and the link to the investigation by Snopes~
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Old 07-04-2011, 05:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
I used the wrong term. I get emails from friends and family that are political and are of the "Can you believe this???" type. I often reply with "No" and the link to the investigation by Snopes~
Ah, OK, I get those too. I have a sister that I had to write a special E-Mail rule for in Outlook because of her Forwarditis. Whenever I received anything from her with "fwd" or "FWD" in the subject line ( I think it was) it would be forwarded back to her address with an error message. Only took about three weeks to work.
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:06 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
I used the wrong term. I get emails from friends and family that are political and are of the "Can you believe this???" type. I often reply with "No" and the link to the investigation by Snopes~
I have read the owner of Snopes is a flaming lefty. ( Not saying it's true just something I've read....but wiki says they're not and free from bias when no one is.) So on political stuff they have not always been right. More often they use a half-truth. I got a taste of that when someone here used it to discredit a quote by Norman Thomas, a former socialist candidate, by saying he never said it. They gave no truth but spin and innuendo. They didn't prove it was false at all. It's been attributed to Thomas way before the internet age. Furthermore, I saw the same false claim, that Thomas never said this, on progressive sites earlier. Socialist have a tendency to be in denial that they are socialists.

They are fallible, like the rest of us. They are a Mom & Pop team with a folklore background.

Here's a statement by a source that had first hand knowledge of a situation and snopes didn't investigate it before reporting on it.
http://www.metroedit.com/2009/05/how...-is-snopescom/
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:48 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I've also seen Snopes make mistakes too. ( Not sayin' on this but on other. They're not infallible either.)
Who pays for snopes?
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:07 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Calcountry View Post
Who pays for snopes?
I said it was a Mom & Pop operation. So using deductive reasoning I would think it would be them.
However, I heard that Soros funds them just googling snopes and that linked to the Daily Paul.

They're in Cali but I think one of them, or it could be both, are Canadians.
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:11 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Here's a statement by a source that had first hand knowledge of a situation and snopes didn't investigate it before reporting on it.
http://www.metroedit.com/2009/05/how...-is-snopescom/
A chain e-mail that "exposed" Snopes contains falsehoods. And in fact, the site is run by someone who has no political party affiliation and his non-voting Canadian wife. A State Farm spokeswoman confirms what they reported about the Obama-baiting agent.


This widely circulated e-mail contains a number of false claims about the urban legend-busting Snopes.com and its proprietors, Barbara and David Mikkelson, who started the site in 1995 and still run it. They're accused of hiding their identities, doing shoddy research, producing articles with a liberal bent and discrediting an anti-Obama State Farm agent out of partisanship.


The Trouble with Bud

We'll deal first with the most specific allegation, which is that the Mikkelsons fabricated an account about State Farm agent Bud Gregg.

At issue is a sign Gregg posted last summer outside his office in Mandeville, La. It said, "A taxpayer voting for Barack Obama is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders." Snopes.com wrote it up in an article headlined "Chicken Hawked." The e-mail writer says that "they claimed the corporate office of State Farm pressured Gregg into taking down the sign, when in fact nothing of the sort 'ever' took place." But that's exactly what did happen, according a company representative.

In her article, Barbara Mikkelson didn't actually use the word "pressured" as the e-mail claims. What she said was:
Snopes.com: A State Farm representative said that Bud Gregg's office sign bore these messages until 3 July 2008 and that the company had requested the sign be removed as soon as they became aware of it because the sign was inconsistent with State Farm's policy of not endorsing candidates or taking sides in political campaigns.
And State Farm spokeswoman Molly Quirk-Kirby confirmed in a letter to us the same thing she had told Snopes.com earlier:
State Farm: Management requested the sign be removed as soon as its presence became known. It was taken down on July 3, 2008. Mr. Gregg's sign was not endorsed by, nor consistent with State Farm's corporate practices. The company does not endorse candidates, nor take sides in political campaigns.
The e-mail's author says the Mikkelsons didn't call Gregg, and David says that's true. He says he sent the insurance agent an e-mail, but did not receive a response.
much more: http://www.factcheck.org/askfactchec...oprietors.html
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:13 AM
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:17 AM   #23
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The Norman Thomas "quote" has never been found in any of his writings. If you have other information, please post it.
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:25 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange View Post
The Norman Thomas "quote" has never been found in any of his writings. If you have other information, please post it.
Use the search because I already did, like I said, and it's been in books before the interne, like I said. So you can do your own research because I am not doing it again. It's not in his writings as I recall either. It was said to a journalist in an interview. Snopes never debunked it.

Furthermore, I don't need Snopes or Thomas to convince me that the D party, and to some degree the GOP, have adopted much of the socialist platform.
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:27 AM   #25
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No, it's not in any of his writings - or YOU would have posted it.

Now, what exactly did snopes.com say about it that is wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by snopes
But did Thomas ever make this statement? Although these words have been attributed to him for several decades, apparently no one has ever been able to turn up a source documenting that he actually said (or wrote) them, in 1944 or at any other time.

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Old 07-05-2011, 08:29 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange View Post
No, it's not in any of his writings - or YOU would have posted it.
I always know when you post a smiley that you're getting nervous, especially when you start refuting something I didn't say.
Quit strawmanning, when I never said it was in his writings.

Quote:
Now, what exactly did snopes.com say about it that is wrong?
Which quote are you debunking? You don't even know and you're debunking it?

Go to snopes and see and/or use the search here for my earlier post because I am on my way out for an appt.
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:34 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange View Post
No, it's not in any of his writings - or YOU would have posted it.

Now, what exactly did snopes.com say about it that is wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by snopes
But did Thomas ever make this statement? Although these words have been attributed to him for several decades, apparently no one has ever been able to turn up a source documenting that he actually said (or wrote) them, in 1944 or at any other time.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/socialism.asp
ahem. Now then, as I was saying, what exactly are they saying that you think is wrong? YOU'RE the one who claims they're wrong, not me.
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Old 07-05-2011, 08:40 AM   #28
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... And YOU'RE the one who just posted a phony email about them just moments ago, so we know the "quality" of your thinking about them already.
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:14 AM   #29
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You did NOT read what I said. You relied on a logical fallacy.

Quote:
As far as I am concerned the Norman Thomas quote did if for me in questioning them as a source that one should never check beyond as final. - BEP
Orange, may I ask what parts of this sentence in my earlier post you do not understand?

"For" is a function word showing purpose. I stated that for me personally. Therefore, I don't have to prove that or an opinion. However, now that I am back, for a brief bit, one internet source that I have relied on is the one from Liberty Tree which says the quote is from an interview. I've seen similar statements by other socialists though and it's true. They work through subversion. That's not where I originally saw it, however. I saw it years before the net.

Quote:
Source:

1948 - from an interview during the presidential campaign,

[Ed. note: Norman Thomas and Gus Hall, the U.S. Communist Party
Candidate, both quit American politics, agreeing that the Republican
and Democratic parties had adopted every plank on the
Communist/Socialist and they no longer had an alternate party platform
on which to run.]

http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote_...mas.Quote.FFB1
Nowhere did I imply "writings" of Thomas.


Again, I do not need Thomas to say this to not think it is untrue—because it is if you study socialism's planks. The GOP tends to be National Socialist and the Dems more International Socialists. 'Cept for NeoCons who want international socialism aka democracy by making over the world a la Bush's Second Inaugural Address.

Lastly, when it comes to any second-hand information, it comes down to who you trust for a source—that applies to you too. But keep switching my claim to being in the "writings" of Thomas because I never said that and that is your own logical fallacy that I did.
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:23 AM   #30
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ahem. Now then, as I was saying, what exactly are they saying that you think is wrong? YOU'RE the one who claims they're wrong, not me.
I did not say this either. I was merely giving an example to show that they are NOT infallible. I said that because people take them as gospel truth without additional checking.

As to Thomas, Snopes did NOT prove he didn't say it; who did not check more sources when others have cited a source and provided NO evidence. They just spun it. My contention with you was your switching my words around to his "writings" as if that's the only place to look.
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