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Old 08-10-2011, 12:53 PM  
Frankie Frankie is offline
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Overthinking God and universe?

The other night, I was watching the first episode of a new documentary series called "Curiosity." The subject was whether God exists. The program extensively featured Stephen Hawking and his argument on the subject. Here's a cliff note of his argument:

1- The universe is made of 3 things: Energy, Matter, and Space

2- E=mc˛ shows that Energy and Matter can be thought of in the same way, making them basically the same. So now we can say that the universe is made of two things, Space and Energy.

3- Everything in existence has to balance out to zero. Therefore for all that mass/energy we have lots of "negative energy" in the universe.

4- We can prove that even time gets trapped and stopped in powerful Black Holes. Therefore Time can be zero (= non existant).

5- Since everything (including time) was created via the Big Bang from a balance of the original zero, therefore Time did not exist before Big Bang.

6- If God is to be thought of as the creator of all things he can't be, because time did not exist before the Big Bang and basically he did not have 'time' to do creation.

7- Therefore the concept of God (a part of that original zero) is hooey and God does not exist.

WHA??!!!....

Does this strike anyone else as a bunch of pseudo-science mumbo jumbo? I have always stated that while I do believe in God, I do not give any validity to "religion." But here, I'm afraid I have to side with the religious people calling this kind of reasoning total B/S, Hawking or not.

What do y'all think?
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:54 PM   #2
seclark seclark is offline
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i think you posted this in the wrong forum.
sec
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:54 PM   #3
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Since you are smarter than Hawking, this should be a piece of pie.
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:55 PM   #4
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I watched that too.

Hawking's jump from step 5 to 6 didn't make a lot of sense.

We can still ask "What made the black holes?" What made the laws of the universe? What made matter?

There is still no logical way to describe the concept of creation.
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Since you are smarter than Hawking, this should be a piece of pie.
I'm not smarter or nearly as smart. But unlike you I do question things.
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:57 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by loochy View Post
I watched that too.

Hawking's jump from step 5 to 6 didn't make a lot of sense.

We can still ask "What made the black holes?" What made the laws of the universe? What made matter?

There is still no logical way to describe the concept of creation.
I think even Hawking has to admit that there are things WAY beyond our understanding. And if so, therefore why not the validity of the concept of God?
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:58 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
I'm not smarter or nearly as smart. But unlike you I do question things.
Yes, I rarely ever ask questions.

That was also meant a light-hearted joke, Frankie.
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:58 PM   #8
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Who is he trying to convince? In order for his theory to be true you'd have to believe in the Big Bang Theory, which means you probably dont believe in God. And if you Believe in God, you most likely don't believe in the Big Bang Theory.

So once again, who is he talking to here?

Either you are writing it wrong or Stephen just spent a whole lot of time on a ridiculous argument that proves nothing to anyone.
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:59 PM   #9
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What made the black holes?" What made the laws of the universe? What made matter?
All ideas that we should be working together as a race to get off this planet and find out. Yet instead we; humanity, decide to kill each other off over paper currency, political power, and whatever religion we have been raised/forced to believe in. Do I know what god is? no, but I know what he isn't.
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
Who is he trying to convince? In order for his theory to be true you'd have to believe in the Big Bang Theory, which means you probably dont believe in God. And if you Believe in God, you most likely don't believe in the Big Bang Theory.

So once again, who is he talking to here?

Either you are writing it wrong or Stephen just spent a whole lot of time on a ridiculous argument that proves nothing to anyone.
There are a lot of people that believe in "A" god.
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:01 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by loochy View Post
There are a lot of people that believe in "A" god.
So these people believe in A God that came after the Big Bang?

Can't say I've ever met one of those....
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:01 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Yes, I rarely ever ask questions.

That was also meant a light-hearted joke, Frankie.
You do realize after recent 'events' here, there's no such thing as a "light-hearted" joke, don't you? Not for a while at least.

So if you want to discuss this topic seriously you are welcome to participate.
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:01 PM   #13
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There will always be a plethora of unanswered questions. Why is sunset good? Why is boobs good?

No one will ever know.
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:02 PM   #14
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There will always be a plethora of unanswered questions. Why is sunset good? Why is boobs good?

No one will ever know.
I know why boobs are good.
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:02 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
Who is he trying to convince? In order for his theory to be true you'd have to believe in the Big Bang Theory, which means you probably dont believe in God. And if you Believe in God, you most likely don't believe in the Big Bang Theory.

So once again, who is he talking to here?

Either you are writing it wrong or Stephen just spent a whole lot of time on a ridiculous argument that proves nothing to anyone.
Can God have created the Big Bang? Why is that so hard to accept?
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