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Old 08-12-2011, 12:48 PM  
Saul Good Saul Good is offline
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Obamacare Overturned

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Old 08-12-2011, 02:43 PM   #16
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The ****ed up part is that's probably the only part of it that really actually makes sense. If you required everyone to have coverage then frankly medicare would be completely unnecessary.

If you're not going to mandate coverage then you need to make it illegal to treat someone unless they can prove they can pay. Those are really the only options. You either need to make people pay for heath insurance or you need to make sure that the rest of us don't subsidize those that refuse or cannot pay.

What's funny is that most people should actually want this to be legal. Because if the government can't require people to buy insurance, then the other legal option is to mandate a government health plan. Both achieve the same goal whereas one will be privately run and the other will be government run. When you must choose between evils it's better to choose the lessor. You're making a big gamble that at some point in the future government won't mandate a single payer system.

This is actually a pretty bad decision for everyone. It's not good for the government to mandate things, but it's also bad to ask me to subsidize your health care because you refuse to buy insurance. Unless we require hospitals to refuse treatment to those who cannot pay we have to do this.

We're ****ed...the only piece that made sense gets shot down while the rest of the garbage still is valid. Worst possible decision.
The other garbage isn't unconstitutional.

This decision isn't the best thing that could happen but it leads the way to dismantling the rest of it.
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Old 08-12-2011, 02:51 PM   #17
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The other garbage isn't unconstitutional.

This decision isn't the best thing that could happen but it leads the way to dismantling the rest of it.
Exactly

This was a power grab by the liberal government hidden behind a benevolent concept. Look what these incompetent assholes did with the social security, welfare, medicare and every other safety net (ie welfare) programs they've implemented.

You have to be plain stupid, as in bag of hammers, mouth breathing, I just swallowed a rock stupid, to want to give these bureaucrats any more power.
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Old 08-12-2011, 02:52 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD View Post
The ****ed up part is that's probably the only part of it that really actually makes sense. If you required everyone to have coverage then frankly medicare would be completely unnecessary.

If you're not going to mandate coverage then you need to make it illegal to treat someone unless they can prove they can pay. Those are really the only options. You either need to make people pay for heath insurance or you need to make sure that the rest of us don't subsidize those that refuse or cannot pay.

What's funny is that most people should actually want this to be legal. Because if the government can't require people to buy insurance, then the other legal option is to mandate a government health plan. Both achieve the same goal whereas one will be privately run and the other will be government run. When you must choose between evils it's better to choose the lessor. You're making a big gamble that at some point in the future government won't mandate a single payer system.

This is actually a pretty bad decision for everyone. It's not good for the government to mandate things, but it's also bad to ask me to subsidize your health care because you refuse to buy insurance. Unless we require hospitals to refuse treatment to those who cannot pay we have to do this.

We're ****ed...the only piece that made sense gets shot down while the rest of the garbage still is valid. Worst possible decision.
I agree with most of this. I don't think you need to make it illegal to treat the uninsured though. I think it would be adequate to make it legal not to treat them. My fear is that this will play into the hands of the single payer supporters, as you suggest. Hopefully, it will lead us back to the drawing board while the single payer fans are out of power instead.

I do think there's probably a way to get around this ruling without going full bore single payer though. If you design the "mandate" as a strong tax incentive instead of a straight mandate, I suspect it would be constitutional.
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Old 08-12-2011, 02:54 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD View Post
What's funny is that most people should actually want this to be legal.
Do you have any concern for the cause for liberty?
I don't want it legal because I don't want to live in a fascism. This is a fascist model.

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Because if the government can't require people to buy insurance, then the other legal option is to mandate a government health plan. Both achieve the same goal whereas one will be privately run and the other will be government run.
Most of us on the right already know that Obamacare is just a stepping stone to a govt health plan eventually anyway, because it will deteriorate health care markets and drive up costs. Then the left can say the market failed—eventhough it's not the market that did it.

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When you must choose between evils it's better to choose the lessor.
How 'bout choosing neither. Either way you are still choosing evil.
Many of us, on the right, do not want more govt interference in healthcare and certainly not Obamacare whether it's the fascist model or the outright socialist model.
How choosing a free-market system instead of any evil?

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You're making a big gamble that at some point in the future government won't mandate a single payer system.
That's still gonna happen with Obamacare. Just witness the past 30 years of govt involvment in this area.

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This is actually a pretty bad decision for everyone.
Speak for yourself because that's subjective. You do NOT speak for "everyone."

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It's not good for the government to mandate things, but it's also bad to ask me to subsidize your health care because you refuse to buy insurance.
Whoever is asking you to do that, should not be asking that and the govt politicians should tell them that on enabling them. Instead, you subsidize others healthcare with your own argument here anyway. Flip side of the same coin.

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Unless we require hospitals to refuse treatment to those who cannot pay we have to do this.
People were not turned away when healthcare had no govt involvement at all. It was once all private, the envy of the world and more affordable too. Now we've had a patchwork socialist healthcare for many, many years in an attempt to make it affordable while it became less affordable. The result has been a corporate health-care system that makes doctors and patients unhappy but pleases corporations.

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We're ****ed...the only piece that made sense gets shot down while the rest of the garbage still is valid. Worst possible decision.
It's the piece that violates the Constitution. Nice to know you don't give a dayum about it because it's not practical when it gets in your way. That's the whole idea is to bind men ( of mischief) down by the "chains of the Constitution."

This is SUPPOSED to be a FREE country. Or did you forget? I think you forgot or perhaps never knew it was.
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Old 08-12-2011, 04:34 PM   #20
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If the mandate portion is overturned it pretty much unravels the rest of his plan.
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Old 08-12-2011, 04:35 PM   #21
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If the mandate portion is overturned it pretty much unravels the rest of his plan.

As it stands, yes. Don't think this is the end of this though. It will go to the SC.
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Old 08-12-2011, 04:39 PM   #22
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As it stands, yes. Don't think this is the end of this though. It will go to the SC.
It's definitely going to the SC. We will probably get a 5-3 decision in favor of turning it down BUT we could end up with 4-4 since the one gal is probably going to recuse herself.
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:44 PM   #23
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It's definitely going to the SC. We will probably get a 5-3 decision in favor of turning it down BUT we could end up with 4-4 since the one gal is probably going to recuse herself.
I doubt Roberts or Kennedy would rule it unconstitutional, it would be quite a break from their other rulings. Scalia too, considering his Raich opinion.
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:53 PM   #24
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I doubt Roberts or Kennedy would rule it unconstitutional, it would be quite a break from their other rulings. Scalia too, considering his Raich opinion.
Uh uh....yeah, you know how they'll decide. If there's a tie the decision of the last court I believe holds.
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Old 08-12-2011, 06:18 PM   #25
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Old 08-12-2011, 06:19 PM   #26
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Where are all the complaints about "activist judges"?
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Old 08-12-2011, 06:19 PM   #27
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Uh uh....yeah, you know how they'll decide. If there's a tie the decision of the last court I believe holds.
That bitch Kagen is suppose to recuse herself, but she won't.
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:25 PM   #28
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Where are all the complaints about "activist judges"?
Why would anyone complain about activist judges this case?
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:41 PM   #29
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Kagan, Ginsburg, and the other liberal judges will be activist if they support this POS. Supporting the constitution and protecting people from the overreach of government is not being activist. Only the lefty nutbags who see every answer to every problem as government would see this being overturned as an act of an activist judge.

Any effort to curb government power and intrusion into our lives is abhorrent to the left and those who suckle at the government teat.
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Old 08-12-2011, 09:58 PM   #30
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Did this court even consult the 'Good and Plenty' clause of the Constitution?
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