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Old 08-12-2011, 11:48 AM  
Saul Good Saul Good is offline
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Old 08-12-2011, 09:13 PM   #31
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On a more serious note, if this is held as constitutional, then what isnt allowed to be mandated by the government as part of the interstate commerce clause?

Today it's insurance, does the government have the right, if upheld, to limit the amount of food purchases? Mandate your modes of travel? Mandate the types of activities you pursue? Each of these have an impact on the governments interest in your health and safety. Since they're paying for your healthcare, as part of this legislation, dont they have an interest in how you behave?
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Old 08-12-2011, 09:57 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
Sooner this gets to the Supreme Court, the better. Everyone expects it to wind up there, they really should just take up the issue now, instead of letting the lower courts rule and running up the legal costs to both sides.
They're smart to let the lower courts sort out the argumetns and the evidence. Think of the lower courts like the NCAA. And think of the Supreme court like the NFL. The Supreme Court wants to get all the amateur garbage filtered through the lower courts so that they can do the real work at the top level.
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:04 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by KCTitus View Post
On a more serious note, if this is held as constitutional, then what isnt allowed to be mandated by the government as part of the interstate commerce clause?

Today it's insurance, does the government have the right, if upheld, to limit the amount of food purchases? Mandate your modes of travel? Mandate the types of activities you pursue? Each of these have an impact on the governments interest in your health and safety. Since they're paying for your healthcare, as part of this legislation, dont they have an interest in how you behave?

This thing is going to be sorted out in 2012. The results of 2012 are going to make the results of 2010 look pale by comparison. I think Obama will still probably win the presidency - I don't think the right will take the opportunity to coalesce behind a single leader. But I think two houses of congress packed with tea party legislators is going to pretty much tie his hands.
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:09 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
This thing is going to be sorted out in 2012. The results of 2012 are going to make the results of 2010 look pale by comparison. I think Obama will still probably win the presidency - I don't think the right will take the opportunity to coalesce behind a single leader. But I think two houses of congress packed with tea party legislators is going to pretty much tie his hands.
If Obama wins, the Senate and House will have to have veto overridable majorities or the path we're on puts us into meltdown. I share the same concern you do about the rights inability to find the right leader...if Christie were to jump in, slam dunk, but the others just dont have it, yet, IMO.
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:24 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by KCTitus View Post
If Obama wins, the Senate and House will have to have veto overridable majorities or the path we're on puts us into meltdown. I share the same concern you do about the rights inability to find the right leader...if Christie were to jump in, slam dunk, but the others just dont have it, yet, IMO.
I've love to Christie jump in. I agree, so far nothing on the right just looks presidential. Would I take any of them over Obama, probably so, but I would hold my nose when selecting it. Still a long ways to go, maybe one of them will come alive?

As for now, we need to take the senate and hang onto the house to neutralize Obama.

I don't have any faith in this super committee to get anything done with real solutions. Gingrich nailed that comment last night, crap if Newt had not of throw Ryan under the bus, he might be near the top of things.

I just don't know enough about Perry yet. From what I see, it appears he's a little bit arrogant, Guess I will find out more soon.

If Romney gets the nod, I would not be surprised to see him pick Santorm as a VP running mate.
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:28 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCTitus View Post
On a more serious note, if this is held as constitutional, then what isnt allowed to be mandated by the government as part of the interstate commerce clause?

Today it's insurance, does the government have the right, if upheld, to limit the amount of food purchases? Mandate your modes of travel? Mandate the types of activities you pursue? Each of these have an impact on the governments interest in your health and safety. Since they're paying for your healthcare, as part of this legislation, dont they have an interest in how you behave?
It depends on what your view of economic activity is, when it comes to intrastate commerce.

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Old 08-12-2011, 10:34 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Jenson71 View Post
This is an easy question. If you follow the last several decisions regarding the commerce clause, you will see that some activity has been deemed outside of the "economic activity" parameter. Gun regulation, for example, is not economic activity, according to the commerce clause. Neither is violence against women.
Gun activity...umm...I think the Constitution speaks about gun activity. I may have to double check that.
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:37 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by KCTitus View Post
Gun activity...umm...I think the Constitution speaks about gun activity. I may have to double check that.
Well it doesn't say anything explicitly about prohibiting or allowing guns near school zones.
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:01 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Jenson71 View Post
Well it doesn't say anything explicitly about prohibiting or allowing guns near school zones.
I kind of think it does...
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Old 08-13-2011, 11:58 AM   #40
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Kagan, Ginsburg, and the other liberal judges will be activist if they support this POS. Supporting the constitution and protecting people from the overreach of government is not being activist. Only the lefty nutbags who see every answer to every problem as government would see this being overturned as an act of an activist judge.

Any effort to curb government power and intrusion into our lives is abhorrent to the left and those who suckle at the government teat.
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Old 08-13-2011, 12:03 PM   #41
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Well it doesn't say anything explicitly about prohibiting or allowing guns near school zones.
Doesn't it say you have the right to keep and bear arms, and that right shall not be infringed?
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Old 08-13-2011, 12:20 PM   #42
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Do you guys ever remember that Obamacare was essentially the republican counter-proposal to Hillarycare in 1994? Or does that just fall out of your heads every time you hear it like a lead balloon? Why was it fine for the republicans then, and a constitutional abomination now? Did the constitution change?
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Old 08-13-2011, 01:03 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Do you guys ever remember that Obamacare was essentially the republican counter-proposal to Hillarycare in 1994? Or does that just fall out of your heads every time you hear it like a lead balloon? Why was it fine for the republicans then, and a constitutional abomination now? Did the constitution change?
Because democrats were clear about the fact that they were basing Obamacare on powers they thought they had (but didn't) as a result of the commerce clause. Should have just gone ahead and designed it as a tax since they were going to take a hit at the ballot box anyway.
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Old 08-13-2011, 01:19 PM   #44
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So why was the same plan ok for the republicans in 1994? You didn't answer my question at all.
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Old 08-13-2011, 04:55 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Doesn't it say you have the right to keep and bear arms, and that right shall not be infringed?
That doesn't necessarily answer the question.
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