Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > Hall of Classics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-12-2011, 12:48 PM  
Saul Good Saul Good is offline
We Ready
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Casino cash: $12366
Obamacare Overturned

11th circuit
Posts: 31,519
Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2011, 06:26 PM   #46
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
Bless FSU!
 
BucEyedPea's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: None of your business
Casino cash: $18685
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
So why was the same plan ok for the republicans in 1994? You didn't answer my question at all.
Which Republicans are you referring to? Certainly not all of them and not the grass-roots. Certainly not the ones who are opposed to Obamacare here. You can count me out no matter what R thought it was ok. You are over generalizing when we are individuals not some collectivist group. Sounds like some liberal Republicans who were in office—politicians.
__________________
“The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the legislature.” ~ James Madison, Father of the Constitution

“We do not believe in aggressive or preventive war. Such war is the weapon of dictators, not of free democratic countries like the United States.”~ Truman, Sept 1, 1950
Posts: 59,112
BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2011, 06:40 PM   #47
suzzer99 suzzer99 is offline
MVP
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: LA
Casino cash: $10543
It was the Heritage Foundation's plan. Doesn't get much more conservative than that.

I don't know why you keep making these weird irrelevant distinctions between subgroups of republicans. The point is it was good enough for the republican congress then to be their own plan, and not it's an unconstitutional abomination according to the republican congress. I really don't care if it was neo-cons or con-cons or RINO's or whatever. Every republican from the past except maybe McCarthy is a RINO to the far right-wing now. Scary times.

Feel free to education yourself about the counter-proposal, since you seem not to be aware of it: http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stor...form-bill.aspx
Posts: 5,605
suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2011, 06:50 PM   #48
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
Supporter
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Spink, SD
Casino cash: $9624
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
So why was the same plan ok for the republicans in 1994? You didn't answer my question at all.
Do you seriously think Obamacare is a good idea? You think another entitlement program doomed for failure because of its costs makes sense? I mean the entitlement programs we have now are doing so well I can see why you might be confused.

Before it was out of the gate the cost estimates were in the red. You don't see this as a long term problem? Really?
Posts: 25,360
mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2011, 07:36 PM   #49
suzzer99 suzzer99 is offline
MVP
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: LA
Casino cash: $10543
Are we talking constitution now or just feelings?

If we're switching over to opinions, no I don't think it's a bad idea at all. The US is the only developed nation on earth where people who don't work for corporations or govt get totally screwed for health insurance (unless you're lucky enough to live in Mass or HI or are over 65). I think it's a huge drain on our entrepreneurial productivity when only healthy young people, or people married to those with good insurance can strike out on their own.

Also it's a gigantic drain on our system now when the uninsured show up at the emergency room for $100k bills that they can never pay. We already have a big entitlement program in that, paid for by everyone who actually has health insurance. It's just about the most FUBAR, inefficient way you can imagine to administer the system.

You guys also talk about this like it's just some straight handout to the poor. The poor already have health coverage through medicaid. This will help mostly the working poor and people who work for themselves or small businesses. The whole idea is to make most of those people (with some subsidies, that are nothing compared to our overall say medicare budget) purchase insurance, and not just the unhealthy ones.

My friend is on medicaid due to some severe health problems. She is finally recovering and would like to start working a part time job and slowly get back into the workforce. But, she can't get any job that doesn't have health insurance, or she loses her medicaid. She simply isn't ready to walk into a full time job with benefits right now, not that anyone would hire her for that anyway. How on earth is that kind of incentive a more efficient system?
Posts: 5,605
suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2011, 08:17 PM   #50
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
So why was the same plan ok for the republicans in 1994? You didn't answer my question at all.
I answered your question about constitutionality.

I'm not convinced that Obamacare is the same plan that some Republicans supported in 1994. I agree that there are elements of similarity, including the mandatory insurance piece, but I'm not convinced that there aren't significant differences. As I said in my previous answer, I believe the mandatory piece can be accomplished if it's done in a different way (e.g. using a tax incentive).
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2011, 08:23 PM   #51
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
It was the Heritage Foundation's plan. Doesn't get much more conservative than that.

I don't know why you keep making these weird irrelevant distinctions between subgroups of republicans. The point is it was good enough for the republican congress then to be their own plan, and not it's an unconstitutional abomination according to the republican congress. I really don't care if it was neo-cons or con-cons or RINO's or whatever. Every republican from the past except maybe McCarthy is a RINO to the far right-wing now. Scary times.

Feel free to education yourself about the counter-proposal, since you seem not to be aware of it: http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stor...form-bill.aspx
She is out of step with the Reagan-era conservative mainstream so she bristles when people lump her in with them. To her, 95% of Republicans are RINOS. She doesn't like Heritage either, but I agree with you that they're about as Republican as it gets.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2011, 08:26 PM   #52
suzzer99 suzzer99 is offline
MVP
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: LA
Casino cash: $10543
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I answered your question about constitutionality.

I'm not convinced that Obamacare is the same plan that some Republicans supported in 1994. I agree that there are elements of similarity, including the mandatory insurance piece, but I'm not convinced that there aren't significant differences. As I said in my previous answer, I believe the mandatory piece can be accomplished if it's done in a different way (e.g. using a tax incentive).
Please list the significant differences, it is almost exactly the same. And the mandate is what we're arguing in this thread, which is definitely exactly the same. I realize you guys would love to just write that one out of history, but not everyone forgets the past as easily as the average FoxNews viewer.
Posts: 5,605
suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2011, 08:39 PM   #53
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Please list the significant differences, it is almost exactly the same. And the mandate is what we're arguing in this thread, which is definitely exactly the same. I realize you guys would love to just write that one out of history, but not everyone forgets the past as easily as the average FoxNews viewer.
I answered the part about the mandate.

I don't know the differences, but I guarantee that democrats didn't just lift a Heritage plan off the shelf and drop it into Congress for a vote. Like I said before, I'm not convinced that you're right when you say that they were the same plan, despite some significant similarities (like a mandate).

Personally, I agree with CrazyPhud that some kind of mandate is essential to regularize the system of universal access to some basic level of healthcare. We've already got a kluged system of universal access that works by having providers shift costs from the uninsured to the insured so we might as well regularize it through some kind of proper insurance system My biggest problem with any plan (Heritage or Obamacare) is that there will be constant pressure (mostly from democrat demagogues) to redefine the "basic level of healthcare" up to cover more and more. Recent stories about liberal interest groups pushing for ObamaCare to include contraceptives in required coverage is just one example of this. That's one area where I have zero trust of a plan passed by democrats.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2011, 09:19 PM   #54
suzzer99 suzzer99 is offline
MVP
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: LA
Casino cash: $10543
Lol ok. I don't know the differences but I know there are some.
Posts: 5,605
suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.suzzer99 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:54 PM.


This is a test for a client's site.
A new website that shows member-created construction site listings that need fill or have excess fill. Dirt Monkey @ https://DirtMonkey.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.