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Old 10-07-2014, 08:54 AM  
tooge tooge is offline
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Math question

Ok, so my 10 year old daughter comes home last night and asks me to help her with her "base 10 blocks" for proofing long division. Huh? so, anyhow, I look it up on line and after being utterly confused, I find a few youtube videos about it, and now I get it. What I don't get, is why these little hieroglyphic looking pictures are used to "proof" something that is super simple. My daughter has no trouble with the long division at all, it's only the "simplified" drawings that are confusing to her. Did any of you use this to learn division?
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:56 AM   #2
J Diddy J Diddy is offline
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Nope. I just learned it. I remember telling my son's teacher that I didn't get it and wasn't even remotely going to try and learn it.
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:58 AM   #3
Katipan Katipan is offline
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Learned it in Iowa, and it makes math sad.
We homeschool in Colorado so we ditched it.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:09 AM   #4
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:13 AM   #5
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This may or may not apply to Base 10 Blocks, but this article explains a lot of the issues people have with the CC math.

http://www.vox.com/2014/4/20/5625086...ated-heres-why

I'm not going to paste it all in because there are a bunch of embedded images and infographs that are necessary to really understand it.

Here's the gist, though:
Quote:
This math is frustrating to parents and to some students — with good reason. Elementary school math has become more complicated since the introduction of the Common Core state standards, which require that elementary school kids not just know how to subtract, multiply and divide, but understand what they're doing and why.

Common Core still requires students to learn and understand the standard algorithm, the techniques for adding, multiplying, and dividing that generations of schoolkids have learned. (Erickson says the standard algorithm is derogatorily called the "granny method," but if so, that term is not widely used in math education or textbooks.) But it also requires them to understand other methods, and those methods can make easy math look more difficult.

How Common Core math is different

Arithmetic has usually been taught like it's a recipe: Take the raw ingredients (the numbers), follow a series of steps, and end up with a result (the answer). While an experienced baker knows why you cream butter and sugar before adding eggs, then add flour last, a beginner just following the steps is in the dark. They might know what to do, but they can't explain why.

In the past, "students had this sense that math was some kind of magical black box," says Dan Meyer, a former high school math teacher studying math education at Stanford University. "That wasn't good enough."

One goal of the Common Core math standards is to make American students better at applying math in real life — a skill that's crucial for science and technology jobs, but one at which American students are particularly weak compared with peers around the world.

The theory is that if students understand why they do math the way they do, they'll be able to apply their skills more flexibly.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:15 AM   #6
Katipan Katipan is offline
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Are other countries practicing this method?
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katipan View Post
Are other countries practicing this method?
Yes. Other countries who kick our asses in mathematics. One popular math curriculum is actually called "Singapore Math."

The entire article really is worth a read.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:19 AM   #8
Katipan Katipan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewChief View Post
Yes. Other countries who kick our asses in mathematics. One popular math curriculum is actually called "Singapore Math."

The entire article really is worth a read.
Sigh, always with the homework.
KIDDING.
On my way.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:21 AM   #9
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Bottom line is we SUCK at math. No, seriously, Americans across the board are getting thier asses absolutely handed to them in the math and sciences by, especially, certain Asian countries (India and Japan, to name two). Have been for many, many years. We import a huge number of foreigners to help support our scientific efforts here in the US, or export the work to those countries.

We need to get better, and there are a number of different ways we're doing that. To us old folks, some of it makes no sense (I'm in that category), but they're trying to teach it in different ways so kids can do better at it, especially in the long run.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:24 AM   #10
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Interesting sidenote -- we suck at math, but we're much, much more entrepreneurial than most of those same countries that kick our ass at math. They are working on trying to encourage more of an entrepreneurial spirit among their students. It's a "technical proficiency" versus "creating thinking" thing, apparently. We're better at creativity, and they're better at technical stuff.

But that means they usually end up working for us. What we want to do is improve our technical proficiency without killing the entrepreneurial capability.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:24 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewChief View Post
This may or may not apply to Base 10 Blocks, but this article explains a lot of the issues people have with the CC math.

http://www.vox.com/2014/4/20/5625086...ated-heres-why

I'm not going to paste it all in because there are a bunch of embedded images and infographs that are necessary to really understand it.

Here's the gist, though:
I can see that point, only for understanding the underlying concepts—not for real world use. So I like what the "Frustrated Parent" with a BS degree in Electronic Engineering wrote: " In the real world, simplification is valued over complication."
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:27 AM   #12
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I was told there would be a math problem to solve...

I am disappoint.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:27 AM   #13
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Interesting sidenote -- we suck at math, but we're much, much more entrepreneurial than most of those same countries that kick our ass at math. They are working on trying to encourage more of an entrepreneurial spirit among their students. It's a "technical proficiency" versus "creating thinking" thing, apparently. We're better at creativity, and they're better at technical stuff.

But that means they usually end up working for us. What we want to do is improve our technical proficiency without killing the entrepreneurial capability.
No need to bother trying to make everyone good at both. That's why we have individuals. Everyone has more ability in certain areas and it starts with what an individual's interests are. That's okay. Nothing wrong with it at all. Allow the individual to go where they want and provide the tools for them. Not everyone has to be good a higher level math. That's why we exchange and trade with one another because someone else is better at doing something that we can't do.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:28 AM   #14
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I'm all for us getting better at math but some of this seems like it's trying to be complicated for the sake of poetry.

Johnny uses a timeline to demonstrate visually that subtraction is a distance between 2 numbers. Fine. You teach the concept. The timeline is a visual representation of a concept. But to then teach that that is the way that they should always determine the distance between 2 numbers is just silly.

I don't think we do any of us any good dumbing stuff down even further.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:28 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I can see that point, only for understanding the underlying concepts—not for real world use. So I like what the "Frustrated Parent" with a BS degree in Electronic Engineering wrote: " In the real world, simplification is valued over complication."
That article does a really nice job of showing how we actually, in the real world, do a lot of these tricks anyway. We break complex math problems down into a series of simpler math problems (think of how we figure 15% tips in our heads).
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