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Old 09-15-2011, 01:57 PM  
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Nobel Laureate Ivar Giaever Quits Physics Group over Stand on Global Warming

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/2141...ysicist-re.htm


Nobel Prize winning physicist Ivar Giaever resigned as a Fellow from the American Physical Society (APS) on Sept. 13, 2011, condemning the group's official stand on global warming.

In 2007, the APS adopted an official statement that emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities were changing the atmosphere in ways that affected the Earth's climate.

"The evidence is incontrovertible: Global warming is occurring," the APS stated. "If no mitigating actions are taken, significant disruptions in the Earth's physical and ecological systems, social systems, security and human health are likely to occur. We must reduce emissions of greenhouse gases beginning now."

Giaever, an 82-year-old Norwegian, sent an e-mail to APS official Kate Kirby announcing his abrupt resignation. He said he "cannot live with the statement" on global warming, and said that global temperature had been "amazingly stable."

Climate Depot, a site that questions manmade global warming, said it has obtained a copy of the letter.

In his resignation note, Giaever wrote: "In the APS, it is ok to discuss whether the mass of the proton changes over time and how a multi-universe behaves, but the evidence of global warming is incontrovertible?"

"The claim (how can you measure the average temperature of the whole earth for a whole year?) is that the temperature has changed from ~288.0 to ~288.8 degree Kelvin in about 150 years, which (if true) means to me is that the temperature has been amazingly stable, and both human health and happiness have definitely improved in this 'warming' period."

Giaever, co-winner of the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1973, is an institute professor emeritus at the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, N.Y., a professor at large at the University of Oslo, and the president of Applied BioPhysics Inc.

According to a Wall Street Journal report, Giaever declared himself a dissenter in 2008, "I am a skeptic... Global warming has become a new religion."

"I am Norwegian, should I really worry about a little bit of warming? I am unfortunately becoming an old man. We have heard many similar warnings about the acid rain 30 years ago and the ozone hole 10 years ago or deforestation but the humanity is still around. The ozone hole width has peaked in 1993," he continued.

"Moreover, global warming has become a new religion. We frequently hear about the number of scientists who support it. But the number is not important: only whether they are correct is important. We don't really know what the actual effect on the global temperature is. There are better ways to spend the money," he added.

Giaever is one of the most prominent scientists named in the 2007 Minority Report of the U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works (updated in 2009) originally citing support of 400 "dissenting scientists", and growing to 700. He was also one of more than 100 co-signers in a March 30, 2009, letter to President Barack Obama which criticized his stance on global warming.
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Old 09-15-2011, 02:18 PM   #2
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Old 09-15-2011, 02:19 PM   #3
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Old 09-15-2011, 02:29 PM   #4
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Why isn't this easy?

Surely it wouldn't be too hard to pull up some of the dire predictions from the 1990s and see if they were accurate or not, right?
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Old 09-15-2011, 05:11 PM   #5
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I had almost forgotten all about the hole in the ozone layer. With all of the hype and dire predictions surrounding it in the late 80s and early 90s, how come we never hear about it anymore? Maybe Kurt Cobain fixed it on his way to heaven. Thanks Kurt!
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Old 09-15-2011, 05:23 PM   #6
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I think even the biggest simpleton in the world must realize that the masses of carbon and other pollutants humans are pumping into the atmosphere MAY have consequences down the road. I think its odd the article is 1 guy leaves instead of 55,000 stay, but whatever. I'm concerned about it and think it deserves to be studied but I think short term there won't be anything drastic to be concerned with.
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Old 09-15-2011, 05:57 PM   #7
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Old 09-15-2011, 05:58 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
I think even the biggest simpleton in the world...
I don't think it's sound reasoning to use yourself as proof...
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Old 09-15-2011, 06:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
I think even the biggest simpleton in the world must realize that the masses of carbon and other pollutants humans are pumping into the atmosphere MAY have consequences down the road. I think its odd the article is 1 guy leaves instead of 55,000 stay, but whatever. I'm concerned about it and think it deserves to be studied but I think short term there won't be anything drastic to be concerned with.
Quote:
In his resignation note, Giaever wrote: "In the APS, it is ok to discuss whether the mass of the proton changes over time and how a multi-universe behaves, but the evidence of global warming is incontrovertible?"
I think his biggest beef is the fact that the organization makes statements like this about conclusions, and not about data and evidence. He's pissed that the organization has already deemed man-made global warming as incontrovertible.
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Old 09-15-2011, 06:10 PM   #10
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Am I the only one who remembers being scared to death as a kid in the 70's that we were all going to die because of the "next Ice age" that man was causing? Have we all forgotten this so quickly?

And for those of you who weren't born yet, yes, that's what we were taught in the 70's. That the earth was cooling because of pollution and we were going to have a man made Ice age.
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Old 09-15-2011, 06:29 PM   #11
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We have heard many similar warnings about the acid rain 30 years ago...
... And we acted on them.
History of acid rain in the United States
Since 1998, Harvard University wraps some of the bronze and marble statues on its campus, such as this "Chinese stele", with waterproof covers every winter, in order to protect them from erosion caused by acid rain (or, actually, acid snow)[16]In 1980, the U.S. Congress passed an Acid Deposition Act. This Act established a 18-year research program under the direction of the National Acidic Precipitation Assessment Program (NAPAP). NAPAP looked at the entire problem. It enlarged a network of monitoring sites to determine how acidic the precipitation actually was, and to determine long term trends, and established a network for dry deposition. It looked at the effects of acid rain and funded research on the effects of acid precipitation on freshwater and terrestrial ecosystems, historical buildings, monuments, and building materials. It also funded extensive studies on atmospheric processes and potential control programs.

In 1991, DENR provided its first assessment of acid rain in the United States. It reported that 5% of New England Lakes were acidic, with sulfates being the most common problem. They noted that 2% of the lakes could no longer support Brook Trout, and 6% of the lakes were unsuitable for the survival of many species of minnow. Subsequent Reports to Congress have documented chemical changes in soil and freshwater ecosystems, nitrogen saturation, decreases in amounts of nutrients in soil, episodic acidification, regional haze, and damage to historical monuments.

Meanwhile, in 1989, the US Congress passed a series of amendments to the Clean Air Act. Title IV of these amendments established the Acid Rain Program, a cap and trade system designed to control emissions of sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides. Title IV called for a total reduction of about 10 million tons of SO2 emissions from power plants. It was implemented in two phases. Phase I began in 1995, and limited sulfur dioxide emissions from 110 of the largest power plants to a combined total of 8.7 million tons of sulfur dioxide. One power plant in New England (Merrimack) was in Phase I. Four other plants (Newington, Mount Tom, Brayton Point, and Salem Harbor) were added under other provisions of the program. Phase II began in 2000, and affects most of the power plants in the country.

During the 1990s, research continued. On March 10, 2005, EPA issued the Clean Air Interstate Rule (CAIR). This rule provides states with a solution to the problem of power plant pollution that drifts from one state to another. CAIR will permanently cap emissions of SO2 and NOx in the eastern United States. When fully implemented, CAIR will reduce SO2 emissions in 28 eastern states and the District of Columbia by over 70 percent and NOx emissions by over 60 percent from 2003 levels.[17]

Overall, the Program's cap and trade program has been successful in achieving its goals. Since the 1990s, SO2 emissions have dropped 40%, and according to the Pacific Research Institute, acid rain levels have dropped 65% since 1976.[18][19] However, this was significantly less successful than conventional regulation in the European Union, which saw a decrease of over 70% in SO2 emissions during the same time period.[20]

In 2007, total SO2 emissions were 8.9 million tons, achieving the program's long term goal ahead of the 2010 statutory deadline.[21]

The EPA estimates that by 2010, the overall costs of complying with the program for businesses and consumers will be $1 billion to $2 billion a year, only one fourth of what was originally predicted.[18]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_ra..._United_States
That's why we don't hear so much about it anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR View Post
... and the ozone hole 10 years ago or deforestation but the humanity is still around. The ozone hole width has peaked in 1993," he continued.
... And we acted on those warnings, too.
First Signs of Ozone-Hole Recovery Spotted
Antarctic ozone layer bouncing back after the phase-out of chlorofluorocarbons.

| May 16, 2011 | 4

By James Mitchell Crow of Nature magazine

The hole in the ozone layer over Antarctica is starting to heal, say researchers in Australia. The team is the first to detect a recovery in baseline average springtime ozone levels in the region, 22 years after the Montreal Protocol to ban chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) and related ozone-destroying chemicals came into force.

Each spring, those chlorine- and bromine-releasing chemicals eat a hole in the ozone layer above the Antarctic. Thanks to the Montreal agreement, levels of anthropogenic ozone depleters detected in the region's stratosphere have been falling since around the turn of the millennium. However, detecting any corresponding ozone recovery has been difficult.


That difficulty is down to significant natural variations in average Antarctic stratospheric springtime ozone levels from year to year, which mean that the hole can be small one year and large the next. Scientists did not expect to be able to detect the gradual recovery of ozone for decades, masked as it is by these dramatic swings.


However, Murry Salby, an environmental scientist at Macquarie University in Sydney, Australia, and his colleagues have now shown how this annual fluctuation can be accounted for -- and so removed from the data. They are left with the underlying systematic change in Antarctic ozone levels. Salby's calculations reveal that the levels are now rising; the findings are published in Geophysical Research Letters.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...covery-spotted
That's why the ozone hole isn't the problem it was.


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Originally Posted by SNR View Post
"I am Norwegian, should I really worry about a little bit of warming? I am unfortunately becoming an old man.
No, you're becoming an old crank, is what you are.

Hopefully, fifty years from now some old crank CPers will be griping about the global warming catastrophe that never came about - ignoring that we acted on the warnings to forestall it.
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Old 09-15-2011, 06:32 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by jjjayb View Post
Am I the only one who remembers being scared to death as a kid in the 70's that we were all going to die because of the "next Ice age" that man was causing? Have we all forgotten this so quickly?
Yeah, I bet you remember those.

What an amazing coincidence that some denialist has a ready-to-wear photoshop just for you.

And speaking of amazing coincidences and nostalgia - what do eugenics and climate denialism have in common? Anyone?
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Old 09-15-2011, 07:16 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by orange View Post
Hopefully, fifty years from now some old crank CPers will be griping about the global warming catastrophe that never came about - ignoring that we acted on the warnings to forestall it.
"We acted on the warnings"

Is China included in that "we"? Because they don't seem to be doing shit about their air pollution and green energy production. They pose a far greater threat than we do if it's true that humans are causing the climate to do funny things
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I would read an entire blog of SNR breaking down athletes' musical capabilities like draft scouting reports.
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:37 PM   #14
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"We" must have solved global warming too, then. Good work all around.
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:39 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
I think even the biggest simpleton in the world must realize that the masses of carbon and other pollutants humans are pumping into the atmosphere MAY have consequences down the road. I think its odd the article is 1 guy leaves instead of 55,000 stay, but whatever. I'm concerned about it and think it deserves to be studied but I think short term there won't be anything drastic to be concerned with.
Maybe the 55,000 have to stay for their own credibility. This guy isn't just another member. He's a Nobel Laureate, and he's old. He can leave without facing any real repercussions because his work stands on its own. The rest can't break ranks without ramifications.
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Colon is 0.7 WAR or 5M in value. He makes 500k. Getting pretty close, and since he's producing war each of the next 4 years of club control, he's fair value for Upton straight up. More than fair actually.
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