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Old 11-16-2011, 03:02 AM  
Silock Silock is offline
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Any fishkeepers here? Saltwater or freshwater

I'm looking at starting up a saltwater tank. Is there a good fish store in the KC area without driving out to Lawrence?
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Old 11-17-2011, 10:58 AM   #61
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Do fish owners really refer to themselves as "fishkeepers"? That's neat. I wonder if that applies to other kinds of pets, too, and which ones.

Bee keeper, I guess.
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:50 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by KC Fish View Post
A few of my freshwater fish...
Very cool looking fish... especially the Jack Dempsey!

I wanted to go w/ Cichlids, but Gonzo wanted a Red-Tailed Shark, so we went w/ community fish. Now the Shark bullies everyone in the tank, including our Clown Loach. The only fish he doesn't mess w/ is our Common Pleco. That guy is a monster, measuring around 14"!

Oh, and I at your snail pushing the golf ball... too funny!!
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:51 PM
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:25 PM   #63
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When I was in college I had a Black Rhombeus Piranha that I named Petey. I bought him when he was an inch long for $50. I sold him 4 years later when he was 7 inches long for $500 (included the tank). Some guy drove like 300 miles to pick it up. Man we got a lot of drunk entertainment out of him. In retrospect, it was morbid, but he shredded feeder fish like no ones business. Sometimes we would even buy a large goldfish just to watch him go to town on it. I used to have pics of him, but they vanished the last time my computer crashed....sigh*
My brother had a big ass piranha at one time for a couple years and it was extremely entertaining sometimes.

If I were to get a fish, it would surely be a piranha.
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:27 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Lumpy View Post
Very cool looking fish... especially the Jack Dempsey!

I wanted to go w/ Cichlids, but Gonzo wanted a Red-Tailed Shark, so we went w/ community fish. Now the Shark bullies everyone in the tank, including our Clown Loach. The only fish he doesn't mess w/ is our Common Pleco. That guy is a monster, measuring around 14"!

Oh, and I at your snail pushing the golf ball... too funny!!
Most cichlids would probably be OK in the same tank as your shark, as long as there's enough room.

Achieving peace in your aquarium can be one of the most difficult aspects of "fishkeeping"()...

You can't really just go and buy a bunch of purtty fish and throw them together. Which I learned the hard way when starting out. And it's not as fun when you have just one type of fish in the tank. It takes a lot of research and practice to find the right mix of different fish. A few tips I've learned in achieving aquarium peace:

Carefully research what fish you want to see what type of temperament to expect. Some are very aggressive and don't play well with others. Some require a certain tank size in order to feel comfortable.

Don't overcrowd your tank. Common mistake that can lead to over aggression. Don't buy fish that will eventually outgrow your tank. It's always a good idea to have some "hiding spots" in the tank too, where smaller fish can escape to.

Be very careful about having multiple fish of the same color/shape. They'll be more aggressive toward fish that look like them. Having only one of each species of fish is a good way to encourage peace, although that doesn't always work. And some fish do much much better in pairs.

When possible, learn how to determine the sex of your fish. There's a number of ways to do this if you know what to look for. This also helps in having as bright and beautiful of fish as possible, as males normally have considerably more color than females. Females tend to be more territorial as well, and can aggressively defend spots in the tank when it's breeding time.
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:44 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by KC Fish View Post
Most cichlids would probably be OK in the same tank as your shark, as long as there's enough room.

Achieving peace in your aquarium can be one of the most difficult aspects of "fishkeeping"()...

You can't really just go and buy a bunch of purtty fish and throw them together. Which I learned the hard way when starting out. And it's not as fun when you have just one type of fish in the tank. It takes a lot of research and practice to find the right mix of different fish. A few tips I've learned in achieving aquarium peace:

Carefully research what fish you want to see what type of temperament to expect. Some are very aggressive and don't play well with others. Some require a certain tank size in order to feel comfortable.

Don't overcrowd your tank. Common mistake that can lead to over aggression. Don't buy fish that will eventually outgrow your tank. It's always a good idea to have some "hiding spots" in the tank too, where smaller fish can escape to.

Be very careful about having multiple fish of the same color/shape. They'll be more aggressive toward fish that look like them. Having only one of each species of fish is a good way to encourage peace, although that doesn't always work. And some fish do much much better in pairs.

When possible, learn how to determine the sex of your fish. There's a number of ways to do this if you know what to look for. This also helps in having as bright and beautiful of fish as possible, as males normally have considerably more color than females. Females tend to be more territorial as well, and can aggressively defend spots in the tank when it's breeding time.
You could be right about him being ok w/ Cichlids, but I wanted livebearers too, so going the community route was fine w/ me.

You make some really good points! I did my homework before adding my stock, (made sure they were compatible). The issue w/ the Shark is a territory thing. My Loach took over his tree stump ornament and dude is pissed!

The only 'goof' I've made w/ my stock was w/ the Common Pleco. When I got him, the fish dork at the store told me he was a Bristlenose. There's a guy that just opened an aquatics store here in Omaha that offered to take him... I just need to make my way out there. He's a pretty cool fish though and it's going to suck to give him up, but it needs to be done.
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Old 11-17-2011, 06:43 PM   #66
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Actually, with Cichlids, 'overcrowding' will generally lower aggression.

If there are a bunch of them in there, they will spend their time chasing each other around but they won't ever target and kill one. Think of it as something of a target rich environment that keeps any individual fish from getting pestered to death.

If you can get a good cichild setup and overfilter it a bit, creating a heavily rocked environment with a bunch of fish will be the most healthy and, IMO, attractive solution.
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Old 11-17-2011, 06:49 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Actually, with Cichlids, 'overcrowding' will generally lower aggression.

If there are a bunch of them in there, they will spend their time chasing each other around but they won't ever target and kill one. Think of it as something of a target rich environment that keeps any individual fish from getting pestered to death.
Do you know if the same can be said for Oscars? I had 5 in a tank before but after about a year I was down to one so I'm guessing the answer is no. This thread has me itching to get a new Oscar tank going.
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Old 11-17-2011, 08:26 PM   #68
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Do you know if the same can be said for Oscars? I had 5 in a tank before but after about a year I was down to one so I'm guessing the answer is no. This thread has me itching to get a new Oscar tank going.
I wouldn't think so.

I'm talking dozens of cichlids. I think the size of Oscars would prevent that.

I'm also referring to mostly the mbuna cichlids. Those are generally in the 3-5 inch range and have a short enough attention span to lose track of whatever it was they decided they hated. It kinda gets back to an earlier post regarding conspecifics; if a fish sees a similarly colored/shaped fish, it will decide that fish is competition and try to bully it. If that same fish sees a dozen conspecifics, it's simply going to motor around trying to chase as many as they can. At the same time, however, other stuff is going to be chasing it around as well. At that point, you mostly get a lot of movement and a lot of tiny little territories. The fish reach an uneasy truce where they'll briefly pursue each other and end up wandering into another territory and they'll get chased out of there. They'll forget why they're pissed, go back to their territory, rinse and repeat.

Some of the larger ones (Venustus and stuff) probably wouldn't be quite as receptive to the approach. I would imagine that oscars would run into the same issue. You just couldn't have enough of them to create a true 'maelstrom'.
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Old 11-17-2011, 08:30 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
I wouldn't think so.

I'm talking dozens of cichlids. I think the size of Oscars would prevent that.

I'm also referring to mostly the mbuna cichlids. Those are generally in the 3-5 inch range and have a short enough attention span to lose track of whatever it was they decided they hated. It kinda gets back to an earlier post regarding conspecifics; if a fish sees a similarly colored/shaped fish, it will decide that fish is competition and try to bully it. If that same fish sees a dozen conspecifics, it's simply going to motor around trying to chase as many as they can. At the same time, however, other stuff is going to be chasing it around as well. At that point, you mostly get a lot of movement and a lot of tiny little territories. The fish reach an uneasy truce where they'll briefly pursue each other and end up wandering into another territory and they'll get chased out of there. They'll forget why they're pissed, go back to their territory, rinse and repeat.

Some of the larger ones (Venustus and stuff) probably wouldn't be quite as receptive to the approach. I would imagine that oscars would run into the same issue. You just couldn't have enough of them to create a true 'maelstrom'.
Ok thanks. I'd just really like to have a big red and a big albino in a tank but it proved too hard to do before.
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Old 11-17-2011, 10:38 PM   #70
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So, I've been perusing Craigslist. Seems like there are a ton of deals on 100+ gal tanks.

I want to do freshwater, though. I want Dwarf Hairgrass to cover the bottom. I love the way it looks when it's all over. So lush and green.

And then I'm going to just put a bunch of schools of peaceful, non-aggressive fish in there, like Neon Tetras, mollies, danios, killfish, a betta, discus, fancy guppies, gouramis, and swordtails. I've had cichlids before in the same tank with barbs, and they did okay. So, with such a large tank, I might be able to get away with one or two, but if I do, they'll come dead last.

What kind of filtration system should I go with? And heater? I've been reading that I should probably stay away from an undergravel filter because of the size of the tank.

Does that sound like a good plan?
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Old 11-17-2011, 11:34 PM   #71
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That's a start! You will need a pretty good light fixture to get your Dwarf Hairgrass to grow right. Depending on the size of the tank you get, a T5HO fixture should do the trick. The only problem is, if you go w/ a high wattage fixture like that, you would need to run a CO2 system or else you will have an algae bloom like you wouldn't believe!

A CO2 system is also expensive and can be too complex for beginners. Which is why I never went w/ CO2. I have a low-med light setup and dose a liquid form of CO2 called Excel. Originally I had a single T5 fixture, but I noticed that my plants were dying off. Then, last week, I added another T5 fixture and BOOYAH! they're taking off.

Planted tanks are a lot of fun, but if you're new to the hobby, it would be best to start out w/ low and move up to high. This way you can get a routine going w/ dosing fertilizers, and adjusting your photoperiod, (how much light exposure your plants will get during the day).

About your stock idea, it sounds good, except w/ the Mollies, Discus, and Cichlids.

Mollies are Brackish fish and may or may not do well in a freshwater tank. I had 3 Gold Dust Mollies in mine, and they did "ok", but they require a certain amount of salt in the water to keep them healthy. I would just substitute Mollies w/ Swordtails if you're looking at getting a nice group of livebearers.

As far as Discus, from what I hear, they can become aggressive and should be kept in a Discus only tank. The Cichlids in a community tank is a really bad idea. They are way too aggressive! Even if they don't technically "kill" any of your community fish, they could stress them out to the point where they could die.

Undergravel filters suck ass! Seriously! I had a partial UGF setup in my tank for about 4 months until I finally had it w/ the amount of crap/debris getting clogged beneath the grates. If you're looking at a tank larger than 75 gallons, I would suggest going w/ a Canister filter. Otherwise, there are some really nice Hang-On-Back filters. Just make sure that you get a filter that will accommodate your tank size.

Heaters are heaters, but just make damn sure it is made for your tank size. The best place to start would be to cruise the Petco/Petsmart sites and read reviews. While you're on the sites, you can also check out their fish and write down the names of the ones you like... then research away! Also, Petco has a compatibility table that will help guide you in your selection.

JFC! I wrote a damn novel!

Anyway, there's a lot to learn, but it sounds like you're motivated to get into the hobby. Just take things slow, research everything, let the info sink in, and never feel like an ass if you need to ask questions.
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:32 AM   #72
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That's a start! You will need a pretty good light fixture to get your Dwarf Hairgrass to grow right. Depending on the size of the tank you get, a T5HO fixture should do the trick. The only problem is, if you go w/ a high wattage fixture like that, you would need to run a CO2 system or else you will have an algae bloom like you wouldn't believe!

A CO2 system is also expensive and can be too complex for beginners. Which is why I never went w/ CO2. I have a low-med light setup and dose a liquid form of CO2 called Excel. Originally I had a single T5 fixture, but I noticed that my plants were dying off. Then, last week, I added another T5 fixture and BOOYAH! they're taking off.

Planted tanks are a lot of fun, but if you're new to the hobby, it would be best to start out w/ low and move up to high. This way you can get a routine going w/ dosing fertilizers, and adjusting your photoperiod, (how much light exposure your plants will get during the day).

About your stock idea, it sounds good, except w/ the Mollies, Discus, and Cichlids.

Mollies are Brackish fish and may or may not do well in a freshwater tank. I had 3 Gold Dust Mollies in mine, and they did "ok", but they require a certain amount of salt in the water to keep them healthy. I would just substitute Mollies w/ Swordtails if you're looking at getting a nice group of livebearers.

As far as Discus, from what I hear, they can become aggressive and should be kept in a Discus only tank. The Cichlids in a community tank is a really bad idea. They are way too aggressive! Even if they don't technically "kill" any of your community fish, they could stress them out to the point where they could die.

Undergravel filters suck ass! Seriously! I had a partial UGF setup in my tank for about 4 months until I finally had it w/ the amount of crap/debris getting clogged beneath the grates. If you're looking at a tank larger than 75 gallons, I would suggest going w/ a Canister filter. Otherwise, there are some really nice Hang-On-Back filters. Just make sure that you get a filter that will accommodate your tank size.

Heaters are heaters, but just make damn sure it is made for your tank size. The best place to start would be to cruise the Petco/Petsmart sites and read reviews. While you're on the sites, you can also check out their fish and write down the names of the ones you like... then research away! Also, Petco has a compatibility table that will help guide you in your selection.

JFC! I wrote a damn novel!

Anyway, there's a lot to learn, but it sounds like you're motivated to get into the hobby. Just take things slow, research everything, let the info sink in, and never feel like an ass if you need to ask questions.
I'm trying to decide if DJ's or Lumpy knows more on the subject at hand... it's a face off!
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:12 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Lumpy View Post
That's a start! You will need a pretty good light fixture to get your Dwarf Hairgrass to grow right. Depending on the size of the tank you get, a T5HO fixture should do the trick. The only problem is, if you go w/ a high wattage fixture like that, you would need to run a CO2 system or else you will have an algae bloom like you wouldn't believe!
Will algae be a problem even if the tank is completely out of sunlight and only gets light from the lights? I'm putting it in the basement outside of the theater room, and there aren't any windows down there.

If not, what kind of grass can I get to grow on the bottom of the tank that isn't too difficult? Is there such a thing? If there isn't, then I'll have to learn a CO2 system, I guess. It's the only way my wife will sign off on the freshwater vs. saltwater (because it's the only way the tank looks "pretty" to her).

Quote:
Planted tanks are a lot of fun, but if you're new to the hobby, it would be best to start out w/ low and move up to high. This way you can get a routine going w/ dosing fertilizers, and adjusting your photoperiod, (how much light exposure your plants will get during the day).
What do you mean by this?

Quote:
Mollies are Brackish fish and may or may not do well in a freshwater tank. I had 3 Gold Dust Mollies in mine, and they did "ok", but they require a certain amount of salt in the water to keep them healthy. I would just substitute Mollies w/ Swordtails if you're looking at getting a nice group of livebearers.
Noted.

Quote:
As far as Discus, from what I hear, they can become aggressive and should be kept in a Discus only tank. The Cichlids in a community tank is a really bad idea. They are way too aggressive! Even if they don't technically "kill" any of your community fish, they could stress them out to the point where they could die.
Also noted. Liveaquaria says they're peaceful (Discus) and would get along, but I guess they're wrong.

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If you're looking at a tank larger than 75 gallons, I would suggest going w/ a Canister filter. Otherwise, there are some really nice Hang-On-Back filters. Just make sure that you get a filter that will accommodate your tank size.
What's the quietest option?
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:26 AM   #74
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What's the quietest option?
EHEIM! I had one of these

(well actually mine was close to this but a much much older one)
and it was quiet as hell. Probably overkill for you, but Eheim makes them in all different sizes... I highly recommend going BIG on your filter.
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Old 11-18-2011, 08:38 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Silock View Post
Will algae be a problem even if the tank is completely out of sunlight and only gets light from the lights? I'm putting it in the basement outside of the theater room, and there aren't any windows down there.

If not, what kind of grass can I get to grow on the bottom of the tank that isn't too difficult? Is there such a thing? If there isn't, then I'll have to learn a CO2 system, I guess. It's the only way my wife will sign off on the freshwater vs. saltwater (because it's the only way the tank looks "pretty" to her).



What do you mean by this?



Noted.



Also noted. Liveaquaria says they're peaceful (Discus) and would get along, but I guess they're wrong.



What's the quietest option?
Algae can be a problem in any tank even w/o direct sunlight. The amount of light from your fixture can create an algae bloom. That's why you should run CO2 if you have a light fixture that puts out a lot of wattage. CO2 kills off the algae. If the algae gets out of control, your plants will be competing to get the nutrients and such that the algae is taking in to grow.

As far as an low-light alternative to Dwarf Hairgrass, I don't believe there is one. However, you could always plant patches of Java Moss throughout the substrate. Eventually it will spread and form a nice "carpet" effect. I saw a tank that had Java Moss everywhere and it was beautiful!

"What do you mean by this?" I was meaning that it would be best to start out w/ a low light setup at first, then upgrade your lighting fixture to support high light plants. You will need to dose fertilizers in order for your plants to really take-off and stay green, (even w/ a low light setup). I use Seachem Flourish, Trace, and Root Tabs. The Flourish & Trace are good for the majority of plants that feed from the water column. The Root Tabs are good if you have standard gravel or sand substrate and deep rooting plants like Amazon Swords.

As far as my opinion about the Discus, I'm going by other people's personal experience with them in their community tanks. Liveaquaria is pretty accurate in their info, so they might be "ok" w/ community fish. But from the stories I've read, I wouldn't trust any of those bastards in my tank.

If you're looking for a quiet filter, the best option would be to read reviews on pet supply sites. Just see what others are saying about them. Of course, you may not have the same experience. I just replaced my old HOB filter and got a Tetra Whisper EX70 HOB Filter. Many of the reviewers complained about a grinding noise, but mine is extremely quiet. It's really hit or miss, especially w/ HOB filters. I've never used a Canister filter, but many people love them.
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