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Old 01-20-2012, 04:10 PM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Obama vs the Catholic Church

The Church operates Hospitals all over the US and provide tremendous he alt care options in small towns through clinics associated with their hospitals. This issue has been building ever since ObamaCare was passed.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...137778108.html

WASHINGTON—The Catholic Bishops of the United States called “literally unconscionable” a decision by the Obama Administration to continue to demand that sterilization, abortifacients and contraception be included in virtually all health plans. Today’s announcement means that this mandate and its very narrow exemption will not change at all; instead there will only be a delay in enforcement against some employers.

“In effect, the president is saying we have a year to figure out how to violate our consciences,” said Cardinal-designate Timothy M. Dolan, archbishop of New York and president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.

The cardinal-designate continued, “To force American citizens to choose between violating their consciences and forgoing their healthcare is literally unconscionable. It is as much an attack on access to health care as on religious freedom. Historically this represents a challenge and a compromise of our religious liberty.”

The HHS rule requires that sterilization and contraception – including controversial abortifacients – be included among “preventive services” coverage in almost every healthcare plan available to Americans. “The government should not force Americans to act as if pregnancy is a disease to be prevented at all costs,” added Cardinal-designate Dolan.

At issue, the U.S. bishops and other religious leaders insist, is the survival of a cornerstone constitutionally protected freedom that ensures respect for the conscience of Catholics and all other Americans.

“This is nothing less than a direct attack on religion and First Amendment rights,” said Franciscan Sister Jane Marie Klein, chairperson of the board at Franciscan Alliance, Inc., a system of 13 Catholic hospitals. “I have hundreds of employees who will be upset and confused by this edict. I cannot understand it at all.”

“The Obama administration has now drawn an unprecedented line in the sand,” he said. “The Catholic bishops are committed to working with our fellow Americans to reform the law and change this unjust regulation. We will continue to study all the implications of this troubling decision.”
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:33 PM   #2
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Sue all the way up to the SC. He is trashing the Constitution far worse than Bush.
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:39 PM   #3
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Just based on that story without more information, it would appear that the guy from this catholic hospital who is bitching about this HHS rule is very, very confused.

The story is saying that these services have to be covered in health care plans. It says nothing about the hospital having to provide it. If they were somehow required to provide that service (which I SERIOUSLY doubt), this story (perhaps deceptively and conveniently) fails to say so.

I'm reading this as the government telling insurers they must pay for those procedures. Those procedures are not life or death emergency medicine, so I'd think the hospital is perfectly within their rights to say "sorry, we do not offer those services."

Sort of like if your insurer is required to cover a heart transplant and you go to your health clinic, the health clinic is going to say that is way above their pay grade, they don't offer that service, go to one of the state's biggest surgical hospitals.
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Last edited by alnorth; 01-20-2012 at 04:45 PM..
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:47 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
Just based on that story without more information, it would appear that the guy from this catholic hospital who is bitching about this HHS rule is very, very confused.

The story is saying that these services have to be covered in health care plans. It says nothing about the hospital having to provide it. If they were somehow required to provide that service (which I SERIOUSLY doubt), this story (perhaps deceptively and conveniently) fails to say so.

I'm reading this as the government telling insurers they must pay for those procedures. Those procedures are not life or death emergency medicine, so I'd think the hospital is perfectly within their rights to say "sorry, we do not offer those services."

Sort of like if your insurer is required to cover a heart transplant and you go to your health clinic, the health clinic is going to say that is way above their pay grade, they don't offer that service, go to one of the state's biggest surgical hospitals.
Are you affiliated with a hospital or have understanding that would be better than the Catholic Bishops who oversee there hospital system?
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:54 PM   #5
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OK, just read a bit more on other stories. This issue is very, very small impacting very few people, with even fewer people among that group complaining about it.

It is about just the insurance coverage, not hospitals having to offer contraception. Under Obamacare, apparently all health insurance plans will need to cover contraception services with no copay or deductible. Religions objected, so they were given an exemption. Religions do not have to give their ministers and employees working directly for the religion any contraceptive coverage.

Some religious-affiliated schools and hospitals then asked about it, and the HHS said no, you aren't a religion, you are a school or hospital. You must give the teachers, nurses, etc who work for you contraceptive coverage in their health insurance plans.

OK, fine. exempt them, dont exempt them, I don't care.

If their employees were truly faithful members of that religion (and that is not necessarily the case, this is not the religion, just an affiliate, they could have people from other religions working for them), then they shouldn't be using that coverage. Though it could go either way in court, the legal argument is not particularly interesting either, since it wont make much of a precedent for anything. This is a stupid non-issue.
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Are you affiliated with a hospital or have understanding that would be better than the Catholic Bishops who oversee there hospital system?
no, I misunderstood the story. (though the story wasn't clear) I thought this guy was complaining that the hospital would be forced to offer contraceptive services to the public.
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Old 01-20-2012, 05:02 PM   #7
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my Grandparents (lifelong Catholic Republicans that watch Fox News at least 8 hours a day) told me over Christmas that they believe the Catholic Church is starting to become FAR too Liberal for their tastes.

I was too speechless to respond.
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Old 01-20-2012, 05:03 PM   #8
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
Just based on that story without more information, it would appear that the guy from this catholic hospital who is bitching about this HHS rule is very, very confused.

The story is saying that these services have to be covered in health care plans. It says nothing about the hospital having to provide it. If they were somehow required to provide that service (which I SERIOUSLY doubt), this story (perhaps deceptively and conveniently) fails to say so.

I'm reading this as the government telling insurers they must pay for those procedures. Those procedures are not life or death emergency medicine, so I'd think the hospital is perfectly within their rights to say "sorry, we do not offer those services."

Sort of like if your insurer is required to cover a heart transplant and you go to your health clinic, the health clinic is going to say that is way above their pay grade, they don't offer that service, go to one of the state's biggest surgical hospitals.
Well then, Obama is placing on more and more mandates on top of the over 2000 that were added over the years which will drive up the cost of health care. So much for his using the word "affordability" in his health care bill. So it's still Constitutionally questionable and is fascism.
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Old 01-20-2012, 05:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backwards Masking View Post
my Grandparents (lifelong Catholic Republicans that watch Fox News at least 8 hours a day) told me over Christmas that they believe the Catholic Church is starting to become FAR too Liberal for their tastes.

I was too speechless to respond.
Yeah, I agree.

Like the Pope coming out calling for socialism using paraphrasing and world govt?
They sound more like the liberation theologists they've condemned in the past.

Thank God, they don't have to obey them on economic issues because the Pope isn't speaking on faith and morals ex Cathedra.
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Old 01-20-2012, 05:07 PM   #10
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More information....For these hospitals this will simply not happen. Many will close before doing this

http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/hea...ontrol-mandate
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Old 01-20-2012, 05:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Well then, Obama is placing on more and more mandates on top of the over 2000 that were added over the years which will drive up the cost of health care. So much for his using the word "affordability" in his health care bill. So it's still Constitutionally questionable and is fascism.
The broader argument of "this coverage shouldn't exist" is outside the scope of this story, though. The question here is "ok, given this coverage is required (and presuming its legal, if Obamacare gets struck down later this year, this issue becomes moot), and given that religions are exempted, should schools and hospitals affiliated with the religion also be exempted?"

My answer: I don't care.
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Old 01-20-2012, 05:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Yeah, I agree.

Like the Pope coming out calling for socialism using paraphrasing and world govt?
They sound more like the liberation theologists they've condemned in the past.

Thank God, they don't have to obey them on economic issues because the Pope isn't speaking on faith and morals ex Cathedra.
they were complaining it was becoming too socially liberal as well, but yeah, mainly it was their new economic stance they were disgruntled about. thankfully one of my cousins distracted them and i was able to get away before becoming too involved.
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Old 01-20-2012, 05:18 PM   #13
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If I was the HHS secretary, my initial reaction would be "really? You are wasting my time with this? OK fine, I guess its my job, lets do this."

"Is the president demanding that I exempt or not exempt? No, he's leaving it up to me? OK. Who is demanding no exemption? Just a few employees of some of these schools and hospitals? Most of the employees are unaware or don't care either way? OK, who is demanding the exemption? Several schools and hospitals? Fine, exemption granted. If the employees don't like it, they can sue my office, it'll give the DOJ something else to do with their spare time"
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Old 01-20-2012, 05:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Yeah, I agree.

Like the Pope coming out calling for socialism using paraphrasing and world govt?
They sound more like the liberation theologists they've condemned in the past.

Thank God, they don't have to obey them on economic issues because the Pope isn't speaking on faith and morals ex Cathedra.
It's true that the encyclical does not need be ex cathedra, but that doesn't mean they don't speak on faith and morals.

Also, the Pope never called for socialism and world government in his latest encyclical. It's obvious you didn't read the document, which is quite long, but you relied on someone else's (some media outlet) mistaken interpretation.

The Pope clearly talks about the call for world government, and entertains the possibility that there will be one with more authority than the United Nations.
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Old 01-20-2012, 05:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
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The broader argument of "this coverage shouldn't exist" is outside the scope of this story, though.
Yeah, I know but I wanted to add how this sort of thing drives up costs.
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